PA Setup Help

[bassburner]

Originally Posted by Vinny D

If you decide to go active, look for a JBL PRX618xlf, Yorkville LS801P, QSC KW118.
Those are the best bang for the buck sub out there being used in the local club/bar circuit.
If you can only afford (1), it is still better then (2) crappy budget active subs.

From what I'm reading, if I'm going with subs then I can or should stick with 12" mains because the mids and highs will sound better from them.

I'm fairly certain I'm going to go with the DXR12s. You think 1 QSC KW181 (1000W) would be a better option then the 2 Yamaha DXS15s?

One thing keeping me looking at the DXS15s is the space issue. They're more manageable and easier to place since they'd go right under the mains. And I want the bass clarity as much as the bass thump which is another reason for me to consider the 15s over 18s.

[modulusman]

Well the post Vinny did was spot on. I have never heard the yamaha speakers but if you plan to go yamaha tops then their powered sub might be a good option since it is designed to work with the tops.

[DuraMorte]

Originally Posted by bassburner

One thing keeping me looking at the DXS15s is the space issue. They're more manageable and easier to place since they'd go right under the mains. And I want the bass clarity as much as the bass thump which is another reason for me to consider the 15s over 18s.

Please, please, please don't pole mount your tops over your subs, split across the stage.
That is the worst possible configuration.
Cluster the subs. Think of the children.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by bassburner

I thought about going straight to powered since I don't have anything significant yet but was concerned with the extra cost.

What wattage are the powered speakers comparable to? The RMS or the peak of the unpowered?

I'm particular to no specific brand. I've seen the QSCs around but didn't know if they're quality.

Buy once, cry once. QSC is high quality. Most of the better powered cabs out there run in the 1,000 to 1,300 watts per cab range. You might want to consider some of QSC's dual-12 subs rather than the 15s. Either that or a good 18-inch sub or two. But cluster the subs, don't separate them. Also, I would go with 12-inch mains. I think vocals don't sound so hot through 15s.

I use JBL PRX cabs and subs. No issues, and they sound great. Even the Mackie SRM 450s work well. If you couple your powered speaker system with a digital board like a PreSonus StudioLive, you'll save on effects, EQ, compressor/limiters and stuff like that. The 16.4.2 can be had for under $1,700 from the right place.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by DuraMorte

Please, please, please don't pole mount your tops over your subs, split across the stage.
That is the worst possible configuration.
Cluster the subs. Think of the children.

Heed this. I nearly had a knock-down, drag-out with a former lead singer who was a "professional sound man" whose rationale for putting the subs under the mains was, "Why do the manufacturers put mounting holes for sticks in the top of the subs?" He had a total meltdown before a gig because I had clustered the subs in the center of the stage. He didn't last long.

[John Bigboote]

Yeah, my drumber is a "professional sound man" too. Owns 215s, and splits subs when he uses them. Sigh.

-jb

[modulusman]

I think you guys that are saying only cluster your subs are making a mountain out of a molehill. If you have enough subs available for the gig then you can put them on each side of the stage. There may be power alleys or not depending on the venue.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by modulusman

I think you guys that are saying only cluster your subs are making a mountain out of a molehill. If you have enough subs available for the gig then you can put them on each side of the stage. There may be power alleys or not depending on the venue.

You're that guy.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

You're that guy.

I guss guys like agedhorse and Don Bommer are that guy too. http://acapella.harmony-central.com/...fer+clustering I'm not saying that there isn't any difference but sometimes it isn't practical to cluster your subs. two festivals i played at this year with PRO sound both had subs on each side of the stage. I'm talking PA set-ups worth several hundred thousand dollars.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by modulusman

I'm talking PA set-ups worth several hundred thousand dollars.

That's pretty typical for most of the bands represented here on TB.

Of course boundary conditions can affect the dispersion of low frequency sounds and in some venues it's going to be a mess no matter what you do. But next time you're at an outdoor venue where they've split the subs, take a walk from one side of the venue to the other about 50 feet in front of the stage while music is playing.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by modulusman

How many bar bands do you know that need a 32 channel mixer? Wrong tool for the job. The X32 would be more suited to a small sound company.

Except that a legit sound company would NEVER use B-word gear. Many bands' riders specifically prohibit B-word, Mackie, Carvin, etc.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Except that a legit sound company would NEVER use B-word gear. Many bands' riders specifically prohibit B-word, Mackie, Carvin, etc.

This is why I said small sound company. I'm talking local 4-5 bands a night gigs where a bar might own the PA or hire someone who is doing the sound for all the bands and no riders involved.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Keithwah

I've saved 1000's of $ of gear from brown outs, surges, etc. by using good quality power products by Surgex, Furman, ETA, and Juice Goose.

How could you possibly know that? How do you know your gear would have been fried had you not had these gizmos? I have been running systems live and in theaters and rehearsal spaces for over 40 years without them and I haven't had a single gear failure attributable to a surge or brownout. IMO power conditioners are a solution searching for a problem.

[Rick Blanc]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Except that a legit sound company would NEVER use B-word gear. Many bands' riders specifically prohibit B-word, Mackie, Carvin, etc.

Carvin that bad?

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Except that a legit sound company would NEVER use B-word gear. Many bands' riders specifically prohibit B-word, Mackie, Carvin, etc.

I saw a rider that specifically prohibited Mackie...kinda left a seed in my brain. I've always been a bit puzzled but, then again, I have no firsthand experience with the Mackie line...well, maybe the 1400i which was a staple for years.

Riis

[TomB]

It's odd to me that a touring band would throw Mackie in with bottom of the line stuff. Granted they're not A&H sonically, but IME they are much more on a par w/stuff like Yamaha & Peavey; solid, mostly dependable (granted they had some QC issues at times, but all fixed under warranty IME). Lots of gigging bands have hauled 'em around for years. Mackie also pioneered some neat signal path innovations that we now take for granted (and that "B" quickly copied).

[modulusman]

The reason that many riders have no behringer, carvin, mackie etc is to weed out the bottom rung sound companies. If you are providing sound the best thing to do is to contact the artist and tell them what you have lot of times they will accept it as long as it is enough rig for the gig and isn't complete junk. A few years ago my guitarist and I werte to supply multiple small PAs at a winter fair. They also were going to have a juno winning canadian national act perform. We got the rider and it was for a rig that would have cost about $100,000.00. When we contacted the artists bandleader they had sent us the canadian rider. In the US they were not as well known and that rider reflected that. They wound up using our PA that cost about $25,000.00 grand and seamed to be fine with it.