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06-13-2009, 03:57 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA | | | Parametric EQ: Typical Freq. Trouble Spots?
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I have a Rane Para EQ inserted in our mixer and looking for "starting points", those freq's which have traditionally proven to be troublesome (feedback, mud, boom, etc). I'm at a disadvantage as we have no soundman so pretty much limited to setting what balances I can before the first downbeat. I'm able to pull off a decent sweep with my Demeter HBP-1 and Sansamp RPM but the PA is new territory.
Please share your experiences!
Thanks
Riis
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"20% of the money will buy you 90% of the sound..another 30% of the money will buy you another 5% of the sound..you can't buy the remaining 5% of the sound because nobody can agree about what it is." |
06-13-2009, 04:02 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: montana | | | IF I have problems it's usually at 160hz and 4k. 2k every now and then. Depends on the system and the room.
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06-13-2009, 04:27 PM
| | Temp Banned (TOS Violation)
Endorsing: Ampeg | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Apopka, FL | | | The only real trouble spots for me are freqs below 60 hz. Those tend to interfere with the bass drum and create muddy mixes, and anything past 5-6k, but that's just a matter of taste more than a trouble spot. |
06-13-2009, 05:10 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA | | | I have the 50 and 40 hz filters engaged on the power amp and crossover, respectively. The Rane allows #1 and #5 bands to be used for shelving although I'm not exactly sure what "shelving" is.
Riis
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"20% of the money will buy you 90% of the sound..another 30% of the money will buy you another 5% of the sound..you can't buy the remaining 5% of the sound because nobody can agree about what it is." |
06-13-2009, 05:15 PM
| | Registered User
el Jefe: Rude Mechtronics | | Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Brisbane, Australia | | | I've asked a few of my sound engineering buddies questions like this - the answer has alway been that there's too many variables to have a rule of thumb. Maybe for a set room with the same PA gear, but even then the response is different if the room is empty vs full.
I guess all you can do is boost the level & sweep until you get feedback or uber-boom, then cut that frequency.
c-
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chris plays bass for: Desert Ghost / Kye Cole
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06-13-2009, 07:04 PM
|  | OVNIFX
EXAR pedals rep for North & Central America | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: PDX, OR | | I've heard a number of times that around 160-180 Hz is a common location for "boom" problems, though of course "common" doesn't mean "everywhere".  |
06-13-2009, 08:57 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Westfield, MA, USA | | | Hit you in the chest type power in the subs lives around 60 Hz. No offense to the extended range types but there isn't a whole lot useful going on below 40 or 50 Hz.
If the whole mix sounds muddy try cutting at 100 Hz.
If the whole mix sounds shrill try cutting at 3.1k.
There is a pithy saying with regards to EQ that has a bit of truth to it: Boost to make something sound different, cut to make something sound better. |
06-13-2009, 09:18 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by projectMalamute  There is a pithy saying with regards to EQ that has a bit of truth to it: Boost to make something sound different, cut to make something sound better.... | ...and isn't that the purpose of a para EQ? I agree 100%. I'm starting to see some repeating "themes" so to speak....mud @ 100 hz, boom @ 160-180, shrill @ 3.1-4.2 khz.
Here's another observation: on occasion, I can discern a subtle "ring" which trails the vocals. Its not quite feedback but I would like to get it under control.
Riis
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"20% of the money will buy you 90% of the sound..another 30% of the money will buy you another 5% of the sound..you can't buy the remaining 5% of the sound because nobody can agree about what it is." |
06-13-2009, 09:36 PM
| | Temp Banned (TOS Violation)
Endorsing: Ampeg | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Apopka, FL | | | Try looking at 4k. Seems to be a trouble spot with our guitarist, who absolutely has to have small underpowered monitors ripping his head off to the point of feedback. Sings great, but man, is he high maintenance!
Also, one thing that will greatly help you to understand EQ is to record instruments into your computer, get yourself a 31 band EQ plugin and a set of good headphones, and just go up and down the sliders boosting and cutting and listening to what gets affected. |
06-13-2009, 09:48 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Westfield, MA, USA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooberwerx I have the 50 and 40 hz filters engaged on the power amp and crossover, respectively. The Rane allows #1 and #5 bands to be used for shelving although I'm not exactly sure what "shelving" is.
Riis | I just finished struggling to make ASCII art to explain the concept for a while there and gave up. Wikipedia to the rescue:
The frequency response of couple of typical peaking filters looks like this
That's what the bands of the EQ are normally doing. The highest and lowest bands can be set to shelving if you want frequency responses that look like this
In each picture the red line and the blue line are two different examples of each type of filter. |
06-13-2009, 10:57 PM
| | OVNIFX
EXAR pedals rep for North & Central America | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: PDX, OR | | | A simple way of explaining shelving is that it affects everything above (for the high) or below (for the low) the nominal frequency point. So e.g. turning down a narrow-bandwidth parametric EQ band centered at 100 Hz would scoop out a bell around 100 Hz, but at the lower end of the bell the levels would approach normal and from (say around) 70 Hz and down there would be no cut. Whereas with a shelving EQ centered on 100 Hz, turning it down cuts everything below 100 Hz (with a half-bell shape at 100 Hz). |
06-13-2009, 11:00 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto, Ontario | | As for common trouble spots, 20Hz-20kHz are pretty problematic frequencies.  |
06-14-2009, 09:03 AM
| | | | there´s no ONE answer. it depends on the situation. it´s a combination of how the speakers and the room perform under given situation.
no rules. |
06-14-2009, 09:15 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by bongomania A simple way of explaining shelving is that it affects everything above (for the high) or below (for the low) the nominal frequency point. So e.g. turning down a narrow-bandwidth parametric EQ band centered at 100 Hz would scoop out a bell around 100 Hz, but at the lower end of the bell the levels would approach normal and from (say around) 70 Hz and down there would be no cut. Whereas with a shelving EQ centered on 100 Hz, turning it down cuts everything below 100 Hz (with a half-bell shape at 100 Hz). | Not sure which definition applies, but here's the spec. sheet link: http://www.rane.com/pdf/old/pe15dat.pdf
Riis
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"20% of the money will buy you 90% of the sound..another 30% of the money will buy you another 5% of the sound..you can't buy the remaining 5% of the sound because nobody can agree about what it is." |
06-14-2009, 10:23 AM
| | OVNIFX
EXAR pedals rep for North & Central America | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: PDX, OR | | | It says right there on the front page, twice, that bands 1 and 5 can be switched between peaking (bell shape) and shelving. |
06-14-2009, 10:37 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by bongomania It says right there on the front page, twice, that bands 1 and 5 can be switched between peaking (bell shape) and shelving. | Thanks for the clarification; the graphs make a little more sense now.
Riis
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"20% of the money will buy you 90% of the sound..another 30% of the money will buy you another 5% of the sound..you can't buy the remaining 5% of the sound because nobody can agree about what it is." |
06-21-2009, 09:00 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN | | | Most PAs (with subs) have a nasty bump around 80.
Most Bass rigs have a bump around 160.
When used at 0" distance, most vocal mics are up about 10dB at around 200 (and it's a very wide bump).
There's often a "honk" somewhere between 400 and 1k.
Host PA horns have a nasty resonance about 4k or 7k.
Most vocal mics have a peak somewhere between 2k and 8k.
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