Passive vs powered PA cabs

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by JTE

OK, I see. But I'm still leery of a lot of long AC cables as opposed to even twice as many long speaker cables. So you're running a 50' mic cable and two 50' AC extension cords to each side of stage to drive a powered speaker and a powered sub on either side?

jte

Do you not run power to the far side of the stage for your guitar/bass rig? Even if you are playing someplace where power is that far away why would you need to run two 50ft extension cords? Use one and a power strip. If anything you are using less long cords because you don't need 2-50ft speaker cables to reach the far side of the stage.

[D.A.R.K.]

you are best off with the shortest run being the power amp to speaker, which is unbeatable with powered cabs. powered or not, you will still have to have proper eq to tune the system with.
i'm a fan of yorkville for best bang for the buck.
seems like everybody is making both wood as well as plastic offerings these days as well.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by D.A.R.K.

you are best off with the shortest run being the power amp to speaker, which is unbeatable with powered cabs. powered or not, you will still have to have proper eq to tune the system with.
i'm a fan of yorkville for best bang for the buck.
seems like everybody is making both wood as well as plastic offerings these days as well.

You may need an EQ with your powered speakers but they usually sound better with less EQ than a passive system will. My EAW nts sound great with the EQ bypassed and I only use it rooms that need it.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by JTE

Hmm, so the extra weight of powere cabs isn't a problem when you have to lift them up on the poles?

A SRM450 weights 51 pounds.
A JBL SRX715 passive two way equivalent in specs is 48 pounds.

Not a lot more for two extra power amps......

Originally Posted by JTE

And running all those AC cables in addition to the audio cables doesn't cause problems? And what about having AC cables running parallel to your audio cables- does that cause noise in the systems?

That's why all professional audio system uses balanced line.
I've run 150' snake along Camlock feeder without noise......

Originally Posted by JTE

I'm skeptical of the overall advantages of powered cabs, is why I'm asking.

THe disadvantage you say about having to run an AC cord and an XLR conector to a box is compensated by the fact that you don't have to plug (and carry) an amp rack.

[Zooberwerx]

Just bought conventional / passive mains and subs because:

1) Readily available on the used market locally. I saw few powered components.

2) We already had two power amps available (but probably need a third as back-up).

3) Weight: In a pinch, I can lift either enclosure into the back of my pickup without dropping a testicle down my trouser leg.

I have no preference either way in terms of performance.

Riis

[DocBop]

Haven't read all the posts but no one has mention the issue with powered spkrs and long cable runs. You run into limits you don't with passive spkrs. So you have to consider the largest venue you plan to play and running line level cables that far without signal loss.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Haven't read all the posts but no one has mention the issue with powered spkrs and long cable runs. You run into limits you don't with passive spkrs. So you have to consider the largest venue you plan to play and running line level cables that far without signal loss.

It's the opposite.
There is a lot more signal lost in long speaker cable runs than balanced line level runs.
You can run 200-300 foot snakes without much signal lost ( Mic and level) . Not so true with speaker cables.

That IS one advantage of active speakers ; the speaker cable between the amp and the driver is a few inches long.

[Deacon_Blues]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Haven't read all the posts but no one has mention the issue with powered spkrs and long cable runs. You run into limits you don't with passive spkrs. So you have to consider the largest venue you plan to play and running line level cables that far without signal loss.

You haven't read all posts and say no-one has mentioned it?

Long cables are no problem if they are balanced, which they should be. Think of a common 30 meter long multi-cable that sends signals both ways between the stage and the mixer. They don't deteriorate the signal. If you feed the signal 10 meters more, there's no difference to talk about. At least I've never noticed any.

[modulusman]

Passive PAs are old technology. It use to be that power amps were HEAVY so it made no sense to enclose them in a speaker cab. Now you can buy powered speakers that weigh less than a poweramp did 20 years ago. Back then a peavey cs-400 weighed about 50 pounds,today you can get a JBL prx512 speaker that weighs 40 pounds! For most bar bands powerwed is the best way to go.

[JTE]

Well, "old technology" is no big deal. Otherwise there'd be few people who wanted a real SVT (solid-state Ampegs by definition can't be SVT- "SVT" means "Super Valve Technology)

My experience, which lead to the questions is that I find it easier to get clean AC at the back of most stages, but not so much at the front. We'll run one heavy drop cord to the front of we need to for the amp rack, but finding enough good clean power right up front for four AC cords instead of only one is a hassle. And running long AC lines is where the voltage drop becomes a problem, not the signal loss in either speaker cables (passive systems) nor the mic cable (actives).

I'm intrigued by the idea of them...

jte

[modulusman]

I hardly ever need more than a 25ft extension cord at any place I play. If you use 12 gauge cable you won't see enough voltage drop to matter.

[fokof]

Even Line arrays are getting active.......

[JKT]

Originally Posted by baba

Gotta disagree here. Yorkville and EV crush Mackie & JBL offerings IMO.

I love the design and the sound of Yorkville stuff. My only beef with them is the sheer weight and size of their enclosures. Correct me if I'm wrong here because I don't own any, but in all there lines I have yet to find a PA cab that weighs less than 75 lbs. many of them are 82 lbs and up.
have I missed a more svelte line of powered cabs that thy make?

I'm an older, slightly pudgier player, but I can horse an EON up on a pod all by my lonesome.

JKT

[D.A.R.K.]

the yorkville nx series has a 12 and 1" with 550 watts, bi-amped, at 41 lbs.

[D.A.R.K.]

Originally Posted by modulusman

You may need an EQ with your powered speakers but they usually sound better with less EQ than a passive system will. My EAW nts sound great with the EQ bypassed and I only use it rooms that need it.

well, perhaps only if the acoustic environment is not an issue.
there would be no difference in the sound of your eaw cabs if the same power and cross overs were in a rack sitting next to them.
however, you do gain an advantage in that ideally the components (power and x-over points and slopes) should be optimized for the speaker enclosures to perform at their greatest potential.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by D.A.R.K.

well, perhaps only if the acoustic environment is not an issue.
there would be no difference in the sound of your eaw cabs if the same power and cross overs were in a rack sitting next to them.
however, you do gain an advantage in that ideally the components (power and x-over points and slopes) should be optimized for the speaker enclosures to perform at their greatest potential.

The problem would be knowing how to set up a crossover/processor to get the best results. Some how I think the people who designed the speakers would have a better idea than I do.