Playing live without an amp

brndn123 · #1 05-01-2011, 11:24 AM

IRRELEVANT: Had a four hour winery gig last night. About 3/4 through the set, the power went out. We did a few acoustic jams with the crowd then took a break to give the venue time to diagnose and fix the problem.

RELEVANT: During said break, my guitarist had mentioned to me a rig breakdown of Tosin Abasi's (Animals as Leaders) live setup he had seen in recent issue of Guitar World. I was pretty intrigued when he told me that Tosin actually doesn't use an amp on stage, but rather an axe-fx amp modeler/fx processor straight into a powered monitor and out to the board. Now, we bassists have been doing this trick for some time, but would you consider utilizing an amp modeler as your main touring rig? Would you really be sacrificing all that much to the listeners perspective at live gig? What do you think?

MY OPINION: I've spent so many years finding the perfect combination of amplifier and cabinet to voice my sound I instintively shot down the idea right away. But after reading so many threads on TB about the relevance of pickup, wood, and electronic configurations to the bass player and the impact it has on your typical concert goer, using an amp modeler may not be such a bad idea afterall. You consider the large amount of gigs, the wear and tear on your pricey equipment, the physical strain from the constant loading and unloading, and the space it takes up in your vehicle. I don't know, I may have to dust off the ol' bass pod

brndn123 · #2 05-01-2011, 11:58 AM

Kenner · #3 05-01-2011, 12:01 PM

I do it alot. Vt Deluxe to the board. I have FOH send me a lil' back to my monitor...no prob

RedLeg · #4 05-01-2011, 12:08 PM

we did that in iraq. less crap to load on a blackhawk. good PA (we had subs), good DI, should sound pretty nice if the soundman is worth a roll of charmin.

Jimbob Jones · #5 05-01-2011, 12:26 PM

If I was touring, I would want an amp, not for monitoring, but for it to be mic'd up.

Most gigs I do, I DI straight into the board, and trust the sound guy to give me enough monitor; I know it makes his life easier.

I use IEMs whenever possible.

From the PA side of things, if the bassist has an amp, then I'll mic it (combined with DI), but if he goes without, then it's usually not that hard to make the bass sound good on DI alone.

brndn123 · #6 05-01-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbob Jones

If I was touring, I would want an amp, not for monitoring, but for it to be mic'd up.

Most gigs I do, I DI straight into the board, and trust the sound guy to give me enough monitor; I know it makes his life easier.

I use IEMs whenever possible.

From the PA side of things, if the bassist has an amp, then I'll mic it (combined with DI), but if he goes without, then it's usually not that hard to make the bass sound good on DI alone.

Thats the brilliance of the whole idea to me. If you bring your own powered monitor, you can control your stage volume as you would an amp whether it be a huge club or a private party. With the bass pod, for example, you have a few decent amp modelers to tweak to better emulate the mic situation. Definitely won't sound as good to OUR musically trained ears, but the audience will not be able to tell 99% of the time.

Kinetic Monkey · #7 05-01-2011, 12:36 PM

I did it for ages with an old funk band I was in, but that was because I had a crappy amp and a great PA with excellent monitors at the time. To be honest, I only use an amp for my own monitoring perspective and to give the sound guy a reference of what I want it to sound like.

steveksux · #8 05-01-2011, 06:16 PM

If the rest of the band used IEMs, I'd bring my Navigator preamp and leave the rest at home. I'm using IEMs already, so the amp is just for the band to hear me. So I got a lightweight combo, we run everyone through FOH so don't need much stage volume.

Randy

jaywa · #9 05-02-2011, 11:23 AM

I've been considering this exact thing. Our entire band is on IEMs and has a full P.A. including multiple subs per side with plenty of power. Right now I'm running a 150-watt Line6 bass combo onstage, direct to the board with the combo strictly for signal processing and some onstage presence. Thinking it might be time to downscale even more to a SansAmp Bass Driver Deluxe or some such, with two channel presets. Am currently discussing this with the band but might not pull the trigger till our big outdoor season is over cause I'm not confident going totally amp-less on an outdoor stage.

MNAirHead · #10 05-02-2011, 11:38 AM

whenever posssible I go IEM/DI...

The front of house sound is so much better..faster sound checks.. more spectrum control... fewer pieces etc.

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Kenner and I are in the same boat... I have sevaral Kickback amps with sound guy approved DI.... IF for some reason the monitors will not work well with bass, I quick pull out the bass wedge.

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The only time I take out my SVT, fridge or custom cabs are when the sound company or artist insists...

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After going through the acclimation and learning curve... I believed in the concept enough to sell my prior band and start over.

I bought DI/Modeler for the guitarist and set of VDrums... .. and needed hard wire IEM boxes.

We can now setup in about 20 minutes total (including sound check) do not have dead spots on stage... my ears aren't ringing.. and it all fits in a mini van.

Total package wasn't cheap.. I firmly bleieve we've gotten additional gigs due to it.

SteveC · #11 05-02-2011, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brndn123

Thats the brilliance of the whole idea to me. If you bring your own powered monitor, you can control your stage volume as you would an amp whether it be a huge club or a private party. With the bass pod, for example, you have a few decent amp modelers to tweak to better emulate the mic situation. Definitely won't sound as good to OUR musically trained ears, but the audience will not be able to tell 99% of the time.

I wonder sometimes if some of our "musically trained ears" can tell, either.

If you have a good FOH and good monitor, this is a great thing. I have been tempted many times to get a nice powered monitor, us an Avalon U5 and call it good. Problem is, there are no "micro" monitors. Right now, I use my "micro" combo and an Avalon U5.

MNAirHead · #12 05-02-2011, 11:41 AM

Micro monitors.. meaning a powered monitor.

Stop by a pro audio (not guitar Center) .. there are seme very conincing setups in the $700 range... they'll blow most bass amps out of the water.

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I welcome IEM and kickback amp PMs...

Calebmundy · #13 05-02-2011, 11:46 AM

I think it's great if you have good monitoring-either ears or wedges. I just played a gig where I didn't have room to bring an amp on the trip. I shredded the house monitor half a song into the set and had to imagine what anything sounded like for the rest of the night. I really wished I had an amp at the time.

**lowfreqgeek** · #14 05-02-2011, 11:57 AM

I played a 3hr gig on Saturday without an amp. It was awesome. I knew going in that amps would have to be facing backward off the stage if used at all (per venue rules), so I didn't take one. I used a VT Bass through a GT Brick DI and I have to say that the tone was everything I wanted it to be (P w/TI flats, old-school boogaloo/funk - think Carol Kaye). The best part is that the entire band (B3, sax, guitar, drums + me on bass) had a nearly perfect monitor mixes, and the house sound was "amazing", according to a band-mate from one of my other bands who was there.

Some situations require an amp, but many are better off without. No real "one-size-fits-all" solution, IME.

SteveC · #15 05-02-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

... there are some very convincing setups in the $700 range... they'll blow most bass amps out of the water.

Like....

Medford Bassman · #16 05-02-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

Like....

I too, would like to hear about some company names for these types of monitors.

MNAirHead · #17 05-02-2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

Like....

Check the QSC K series stuff

MNAirHead · #18 05-02-2011, 05:54 PM

Just a quick reminder..

A monitor is for your use.. There will be some nutballs that will comment back that you need to hear with a KSub.. there's enough in a K main to have a reference for what you're doing.

-=----

I still suggest to start with a Rolls box and some pro fit IEMs... then save for your wireless IEM... oh yea.. then it turns into a wireless guitar sender... as long as you're doing that may as well have an ABYX box..... then some type of alternative DI.. (joking).

Tim

SteveC · #19 05-02-2011, 07:32 PM

Yamaha has a pretty impressive DSR Series. The 112 can be a floor wedge or main. We have a Yamaha dealer locally that has them in stock. Tried a bass right into one for a minute one day and it kicked. They are loud! But they sound great. 47 pounds though. Not an Ampeg 8x10, but not my little 20 pound combo, either.

Still, I've been liking the Avalon U5 through my combo so maybe I'll try it with the powered monitor and see what happens.

fokof · #20 05-02-2011, 11:10 PM

I exclusively use active monitors as , well , as monitor.

RCF
QSC
JBL
EV
Older Mackies

Are good names