power conditioner help??

[everette1337]

Im not new to playing bass, but I have never really used effects but im looking to start building up a rack. I was curious to know what power conditioner would be good for me to use and what exactly I should look for in one before making a purchase. also if you have any effects you recommend using to help me get a better sound and tone out of my bass set up. I'm playing through an ampeg svt 450H and an ampeg svt 8x10 , schecter raiden dlx 4

[bongomania]

Mostly, power conditioners are just outlet strips with rackmounting ears and a high price tag. The most important thing is to not spend too much money on one, because most of the claims they make are BS.

For effects, you'll want to check out the Effects forum here. Be sure to read the FAQ there first, before posting.

[walker rosewood]

Those are two different areas really. If you've got some rack mountable gear to power up, then Furman is the industry standard for power conditioners. Even the cheap ones are fine. If you mean a floor strip type thing...just note the difference between a 'power strip' which is just outlets in a row, and a 'surge protector' which will actually protect your gear.

There are still rack effects units out there, but the game has changed and now days it's all about the floor board. "I've never used effects, what should I buy?" is such a vague question. The answer varies depending on many things, and ultimately your own opinion and budget will decide.

But the standard TB response is to get a multi-effects unit like the Boss ME-50B, or the Line 6 M13 or M9. Mess with it for a while, find out what types of effects you like/want, and what parameters you'd like control over. Then sell the multi-unit, and buy individual pedals.

[TimmyP]

Just get a good, solid power strip. For rack mount, I like these:

PROVANTAGE: Tripp Lite RS-0615-R Power Strip 6-Outlet Rackmount 15ft-Cord Switch Metal

PROVANTAGE: Tripp Lite RS-1215 Power Strip 12-Outlet Rackmount 15ft-Cord Switch Metal

[BrianS198]

If you're going to go with the Power Conditioner, buy the cheapest one. I purchased this one (Buy Furman Merit M-8LX Power Conditioner with Lights | Power Conditioners | Musician's Friend) simply because in addition to cleaning up my rack and looking nice (Power conditioners are really just eye candy), it actually provides lights to my rack. But as everyone else says, if you really just want RFI/EMI and surge protection, buy a surge protector for twenty bucks and attach it in the back of your rack.

[James Judson]

Don't waste your time on "power conditoners". They are largely BS. The manufacturers make huge claims but are not needed the vast majority of the time. The question is what do you need protection from???? Answer that and you are now educated enough to go shopping. I worked on medical equipment for 25 yrs. Only problems I saw were power sags in very remote areas (like Alaska, Montana, Idaho). Protection from sags is very costly (probably more than the equipment your protecting). Why do most here say "buy the cheapest one". Cuz none of the do much of anything.

[monkeyking]

I had the Monster Power 900 rack mount, which I think was about 70 bucks. Pretty nice. I moved over the a Furman that's more a six outlet power box/strip. I think it was 30 bucks on Amazon. They both do the same thing.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of modern amps have some level of surge protection built into them, but why not be extra sure?

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

First, determine what you want a power "conditioner" for.

To make your rig sound cleaner? Find out if the designers of your gear forgot to do some simple filtering in the power supplies.

To "protect" your rig? Did the designers also forget to put some basic protection into the gear? IMHO, if a piece of gear has an electrical cord and plug on it, it should be able to handle both normal and the likely abnormal situations. That's pretty basic.

To eliminate ground loops? Power "conditioners" won't help, despite what some music store salespeople will tell you.

To make your rig look cool? Buy one that makes your rig look cool.

There is no "industry standard" power "conditioner." There are some that are more popular among buyers than others. Probably the most popular option among those in the know is "none."

[steveksux]

Originally Posted by Bob Lee (QSC)

First, determine what you want a power "conditioner" for.

To make your rig sound cleaner? Find out if the designers of your gear forgot to do some simple filtering in the power supplies.

To "protect" your rig? Did the designers also forget to put some basic protection into the gear? IMHO, if a piece of gear has an electrical cord and plug on it, it should be able to handle both normal and the likely abnormal situations. That's pretty basic.

To eliminate ground loops? Power "conditioners" won't help, despite what some music store salespeople will tell you.

To make your rig look cool? Buy one that makes your rig look cool.

There is no "industry standard" power "conditioner." There are some that are more popular among buyers than others. Probably the most popular option among those in the know is "none."

I don't know, a good power conditioner after washing my bass amp really makes it soft and shiny. It feels just like Beyonce after a good power conditioner is applied. Its bootylicious... I think people spend too much money on power shampoo, but power conditioners are worth every penny....

I think it definitely increases the time I can go without getting a new perm for my amp, too. The copper in the cables don't get frizzy as often. But maybe that's because I use audiophile cables, too, I highly recommend the Placebo brand of high end audio cables. $1500 may sound like a lot for a speaker cable, but its worth it.

Randy

[walker rosewood]

A lot of folks are saying power conditioners are snake oil, there's nothing to protect from, or they don't do anything. I feel like I need to stand up for them a bit here.

Surges do happen. Brown outs do happen. People overload outlets. If you ever played a dumpy bar with sketchy looking outlets or outside with a generator...you want a power conditioner/surge protector. Also there are plenty of situations where a two prong plug will buzz, but a grounded three prong will not.


Bottom line is unless you did the wired all the electrical at the venue yourself, you don't know for sure what your plugging in to.

[Rockmusician]

The term power conditioner is over used and misunderstood. Most are nothing more than glorified power strips. A true power conditioner will not only protect your gear from voltage spikes and over loads but also maintain consistant voltage as well as have some reserve capability. The only one that I have found at a reasonable price is the Furman Power Factor. You can read about it at this link

FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - P-1800 PF R

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by walker rosewood

A lot of folks are saying power conditioners are snake oil, there's nothing to protect from, or they don't do anything. I feel like I need to stand up for them a bit here.

Surges do happen. Brown outs do happen. People overload outlets. If you ever played a dumpy bar with sketchy looking outlets or outside with a generator...you want a power conditioner/surge protector. Also there are plenty of situations where a two prong plug will buzz, but a grounded three prong will not.


Bottom line is unless you did the wired all the electrical at the venue yourself, you don't know for sure what your plugging in to.

You probably don't realize it, but a so-called "power conditioner" does absolutely nothing for any of the poor condions you outlined - they're only good for separating the uninformed from their cash...


- georgestrings

[Keithwah]

Power protection is a huge concern for all musicians gigging or studio bound.

There are several correct statements in some of the previous posts in that the cheap power "centers" are glorified power strips that are rack mounted. But you get what you pay for. In the Furman line anything in the PL series and up is a very good power protection tool. Juice goose makes good stuff and they also make less good stuff too.

The important thing to look at is what are you protecting from power surges and brownouts? A $300 to 500 dollar bass amp or rack of cheap berhinger/alesis processing? Ok, buy a Furman MX or similarly priced unit, rack mounted or plug strip. But give yourself something, anything between the buildings wall outlet and your hard earned gear. If you have a $500 and up amp, maybe a $500 wireless, a $200 tuner, and maybe a $300 rack mount effect/preamp? Go better! Furman PL is good a starting spot.

You want the best? Buy Surgex. You don't see them in most music stores and that's because they are serious stuff for serious boys. Absolutely the best power protection around. There are other pieces that do provide actual power conditioning and power balancing, but they are much more expensive than most of you guys are ever going to spend, or probably ever should spend.

But power protection is serious stuff and needs to be taken seriously if you want any shot at all of protecting your electronics when the circuit pops or a power transformer in the area blows .....or sends a jolt up river to a building (that's called a surge kiddies) or when the power company gets the juice going again and everything in the building comes on at one time (DOH!) including your rig because you had 3 cocktails too many and forgot to shut it down when the power went down!

Don't be a bonehead, get something....and spend more than $35 for god's sake! Its not about how cheap you can get by with, it's about protecting your investment.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by Keithwah

that's called a surge kiddies

Seriously? You're calling, among others, an executive of the AES a "kiddie", and implying we don't know what a surge is?

Most of the devices you mentioned use the same MOV's for surge protection. These are cheap components that self-destruct each time they take a hit. So on the one hand, yes it is good to have a surge protector between your gear and the wall; but OTOH the expensive ones generally do not do any more surge protection than the cheap ones. And since they become literally worthless after a big surge, it makes more sense to throw away a cheap one, rather than having to throw away your $500 investment. And of course nobody actually does throw away those $500 ones, so they are going to gigs with a useless weight in their rack, not protecting against the next big surge.

If the sum of your view is that surge protection is great, most people here would not argue too much with that. What people argue against is all of the other claims made by power conditioner manufacturers, as well as the faulty assumption that $500 worth of surge protection is better than $50 worth.

[bongomania]

Also, all of the Surgex products I've seen do nothing in a brownout other than shut down.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Bob Lee (QSC)

First, determine what you want a power "conditioner" for.

To make your rig sound cleaner? Find out if the designers of your gear forgot to do some simple filtering in the power supplies.

To "protect" your rig? Did the designers also forget to put some basic protection into the gear? IMHO, if a piece of gear has an electrical cord and plug on it, it should be able to handle both normal and the likely abnormal situations. That's pretty basic.

To eliminate ground loops? Power "conditioners" won't help, despite what some music store salespeople will tell you.

To make your rig look cool? Buy one that makes your rig look cool.

There is no "industry standard" power "conditioner." There are some that are more popular among buyers than others. Probably the most popular option among those in the know is "none."

i do like the pull out lights.....and they do look cool......for what i paid i can't complain even tho' they are mostly hype.....

[Clammy]

I prefer a voltage regulator to a power conditioner, or both, in the case of the Furman AR-1215 I use in my rack.

Cheers!

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Keithwah

Power protection is a huge concern for all musicians gigging or studio bound.

There are several correct statements in some of the previous posts in that the cheap power "centers" are glorified power strips that are rack mounted. But you get what you pay for. In the Furman line anything in the PL series and up is a very good power protection tool. Juice goose makes good stuff and they also make less good stuff too.

The important thing to look at is what are you protecting from power surges and brownouts? A $300 to 500 dollar bass amp or rack of cheap berhinger/alesis processing? Ok, buy a Furman MX or similarly priced unit, rack mounted or plug strip. But give yourself something, anything between the buildings wall outlet and your hard earned gear. If you have a $500 and up amp, maybe a $500 wireless, a $200 tuner, and maybe a $300 rack mount effect/preamp? Go better! Furman PL is good a starting spot.

You want the best? Buy Surgex. You don't see them in most music stores and that's because they are serious stuff for serious boys. Absolutely the best power protection around. There are other pieces that do provide actual power conditioning and power balancing, but they are much more expensive than most of you guys are ever going to spend, or probably ever should spend.

But power protection is serious stuff and needs to be taken seriously if you want any shot at all of protecting your electronics when the circuit pops or a power transformer in the area blows .....or sends a jolt up river to a building (that's called a surge kiddies) or when the power company gets the juice going again and everything in the building comes on at one time (DOH!) including your rig because you had 3 cocktails too many and forgot to shut it down when the power went down!

Don't be a bonehead, get something....and spend more than $35 for god's sake! Its not about how cheap you can get by with, it's about protecting your investment.

Ummm, don't be a "bonehead" and give advice on a subject that you obviously don't know much about...

Bongo pretty much nailed the massive amounts of fail in the above post... What amazes me on this subject is how the "power conditioner" proponents always *think* they know more than the Electrical Engineers that post on these threads...


- georgestrings

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Originally Posted by Keithwah

Don't be a bonehead, get something....and spend more than $35 for god's sake! Its not about how cheap you can get by with, it's about protecting your investment.

I'll settle for being a "bonehead" in your view. That's fine with me. My "investment" is already well protected itself without the imaginary extra "protection" of a power "conditioner."

You actually probably can find a suitable rack-mount power strip with MOV surge suppression for about $35 or so.

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Also, all of the Surgex products I've seen do nothing in a brownout other than shut down.

SurgeX products are great, and they use series-mode surge suppression that's more effective and durable than the shunt-type suppression that an MOV provides. But I would only recommend them for a permanent installation that's operating (or on standby) around the clock or close to it and not always being closely attended to. I would not find it necessary for my bass rig that is both portable and in use only when I'm present.