QSC K12's for bass and band

knuckle · #1 05-09-2011, 08:49 AM

Ok, here's the deal. We got a bass player who's a user on here and I'm the guitarist, vocalist.

All acoustic stuff. I use resonators and acoustic guitars and I sing. I do guitar through a dtar solstice preamp.

We're considering
Allen & Heath ZED-10FX 10-Channel USB Mixer with Effects

And 2 QSC K12's
He's thinking about getting a bass DI (avalon U5 DI, I think) and plugging that into the board > one of the qsc's

I tend to think the bass will muddy up the mix and that a sub would be required. So I was looking at the qsc ksub which has 2 12" subs in it.

Wondering what you guys think about this setup.

So 2 QSC K12's
1 Allen & Heath mixer
bass > preamp > mixer panned to one of the QSC's
Gutiar > preamp > mixer > mixed to 2 of the qsc's
Vocal > mixer > qsc's

The type of stuff we play is redneck, foot stomping resonator blues and harder edge driving acoustic type music.

So before we waste a bunch of money, I'd appreciate some expert opinions.

Thanks

MNAirHead · #2 05-09-2011, 08:51 AM

What exact bass signal chain is he using.

K12 really shine with powered sub.. unfortunately it adds $1000 to the package.

=====

I use your intended setup for my duo work.. it's great.. very clear and articulate...

unsure how you provide resonator... the presence may need to be managed.

knuckle · #3 05-09-2011, 08:57 AM

He's thinking of an Avalon U5
So bass (electric and standup (with p/u)) > avalon u5 > mixer > qsc

My setup = vocal mic > mixer > qsc
Guitars (all with pickups) > DTAR solstice preamp > mixer > qsc

We know we need a sub, but would like to see if we could get away without one for now till we have the cash.

knuckle · #4 05-09-2011, 11:59 AM

Nobody?

chbass · #5 05-09-2011, 12:40 PM

i'll chime in.
i don't have the k 12's but i have the qsc hpr 1221's.
3 piece band ,drums guitar and bass. drums and guitar all mic'ed and bass direct. ( quit using abass amp live years ago and no one has ever missed it)
for the last 2 years i have quit taking double sided pa to gigs
don't need the extra hassle or volume.
typical bar gigs 50 to 200 people at average venue.
here's what we use and we constantly get comments of great thumping and clarity. (we play music ranging from tower of power to zepplin)

for my speakers i use 1 qsc hpr 1221 and 1 jbl mpro mp418sp (single 18 powered sub)
1 dbx drive rack for processing
yamaha MG16/6FX board ( i sometimes use my yamaha 01v96v2 board which sounds much better but is way bigger with the case)
also shure psm 400 and psm 200 in ear rigs.

we never have any problem filling the venue with sound
and musicians always seem amazed at how big the sound is from such a small rig. ( i have double the rig for larger outdoor shows over and anything bigger sound companies are usually provided) this rig generally runs about 150 show a year with extremely low maintanence)

i would recommend only 1 k12 and the kw18 sub and use the money form the u5 ( which is fantastic i use 3 of them in my studio but find that it's not neccessary to get a great bass tone live) to get a drive rack plx.

no need to hard pan the instruments ( confuses the audiences ears in my opinion)
run clean levels and you are in business.
plus a rig of this size can be racked up with snake and all neccessary power chords and cables making it a breeze to set up and break down. i kid you not , literally 1 man 5 minute set up and break down.

one other thing that will help a great deal.
get a set of in ear monitors wit 2 receivers and you each wear them . price has come way down on inexpensive great sounding iem's they don't need to be wireless .
good luck

knuckle · #6 05-09-2011, 01:10 PM

Sounds good, but is the DBX necessary? That's one more complication to the situation that I'd have no idea how to use. The bass guy is more technical than I am when it comes to stuff. I lose my patience quickly if I don't know how exactly to use something. I'd have no idea whatsoever how to use that.

So you say

bass > u5 > mixer to bass cab and then
guitar > preamp > mixer > K12

?

Sorry I'm clueless here. I'm just trying to gather info before we make a mistake. I like the IEM idea but you sort of lose connection with the audience that way I feel.

chbass · #7 05-09-2011, 01:55 PM

the dbx isn't necessary but in my opinion i'ts the best way to get the most out of the pa, very simple to use. you can youtube explanation and demonstrations very easily.
basically you plug the out put of your mixer into the dbx and out of the dbx into the speakers ,sub output to the sub and high output to the k12
the processing it offers are a nice eq and some good overall compression.

bass > u5 > mixer
guitar> pre > mixer

mixer > sub> sub> k12

with the dbx it would look like this
bass > u5 > mixer
guitar> pre > mixer
mixer>dbx driverack plx> dbx low> sub
dbx high > k12

iem's are the best thing to hit since electricity
nothing allows you to hear as well
if you only use 1ear instead of 2 you are not isolated from the audience
and if you want to use in both ears all you have to do is set up an audience mic that you run into the mixer and add to your in ear mix ( turn down or mute the audience mic to the main pa)
one ear is what we all do and lose no connection to the audience and get the benefit of being able to play and sing much tighter due to the clarity and the immediate response of the ears.

remember with in ears you only need the volume loud enough to hear them not crush your brain ( which they can do) so if you control your volume of your in ears you should be able to get a wonderful blend without sacrificing the intimacy with the audience
especially with the instrumentation you described

also a benefit of ears is that your live volume can be extremely quite without sacrificing feel. this is very usefull in small venues or restaurant situations, in fact i've found that being able to play at low levels opens up a lot of venues that are resistant to bands due to volume. it definitely takes more discipline to use them but the rewards pay off pretty quickly with them

knuckle · #8 05-09-2011, 01:59 PM

Mint, thanks man that makes perfect sense.

MNAirHead · #9 05-09-2011, 04:02 PM

Subs are were stuff like this begin to shine (and get spendy)

testing1two · #10 05-09-2011, 04:17 PM

I've used a K12 as a bass amp before in rehearsals and they do just fine. The only issue I see is that your bass player is using an upright and an electric bass (two very different sounding instruments) without some sort of preamp/eq to manage their gain and EQ needs before hitting the direct box. The Avalon is a great DI but I believe overkill for this application. For the same money as an Avalon he could get an Aguilar Tone Hammer for the Electric bass and a Fishman Pro EQ Platinum for the upright sending two channels to the mixer for independent control of each instrument (and faster changes between instruments).

knuckle · #11 05-09-2011, 05:40 PM

Sounds good guys, lots of good info. He'll be checking this thread later on.

chbass · #12 05-10-2011, 07:47 AM

just use seperate channels for each bass
the preamps in the allen and heath are more than adequate for this application

knuckle · #13 05-10-2011, 07:56 AM

So you say bass direct into the board? No preamp?

He's got a pickup on the upright, not sure if it's an active p/u or not.

chbass · #14 05-10-2011, 08:09 AM

yep, use the boards pre amps
save the $400 for the u5

Direct boxes are often referred to as “DI” boxes. This stands for “Direct Injection” as their main purpose is to convert unbalanced and/or high impedance instrument signals into a format suitable for direct connection to a mixing console's mic input - without the use of a microphone.

the active (or passive) pickup or doesn't affect the the
application unless the signal is very hot, and if this is the case you just need to use the -10db pad on the mixer to lower the signal make sure the mixer you buy has input pads , if not you will have to attenuate (lower) the signal input if the signal is too hot

musicman7722 · #15 05-10-2011, 01:01 PM

I own a pair of the 12" as well as the sub. First off I play in a 60's Invasion duo with guitar, bass, drum machine, 2 vocals. We usually just use one top for the fronts and the second top for a fold back. I have a small 12 channel mixer that allows me to send the fronts back to us with a seperate volum control. I have to say the system is great, even with just one speaker. in larger venues we will use both tops and use a powered speaker that my partner owns for foldback. He plugs is acoustinc/electric into a chorus and then right into the board. I use a programmable sansamp DI right into the board.

In my 5 peice band we have a FOH member who provides the PA. My drummer uses Yamaha digital drums and uses one of the 12" tops for his drum AND vocal monitor. He can get painfully loud with it. The second guitar uses the tother for his monitor. The rest of us us IEM.

I would buy them all over again.

Chris