Questions about PA systems...

Apocalypse Dude · #1 01-10-2011, 12:31 PM

So the band I'm in recently decided that we are going to start looking into PA systems. We're a metal band so it needs to be loud and our budget is roughly $500-$700 maybe a little more if we have to but obviously cheaper is better. We don't plan to run anything else through the PA except vocals and the room we practice in is about 20x12. I don't expect us to play anywhere that is too large but if at all possible I am looking for something that if we had to we could use in smaller-medium sized rooms (30x20). Also the used market where I live is very small and there isn't much to choose from so it is very unlikely I will be buying used. I know its a lot to ask and any help would be great. Thanks

Vinny D · #2 01-10-2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalypse Dude

We're a metal band so it needs to be loud and our budget is roughly $500-$700 maybe a little more if we have to but obviously cheaper is better.

That's not going to be big enough IMO.
If there is no used market in your area it is going to be tough to get anything that *might* work and be loud enough for your needs.

How many vocals are actually involved?
If it is just a main vocal you might want too look at getting a good powered speaker as it will most likely have a mic input right on it with some EQ (high & low).
Seeing how you are in Canada I would start with looking at Yorkville.
Love there PA gear, best bang for the buck IMO.
Check around for a NX55P http://www.yorkville.com/products.as...&cat=22&id=339

If you need more then one vocal you can probably get by with a small 4ch mixer and the one powered speaker to start with.
When you get more money just buy another powered speaker too match.

mcapote · #3 01-10-2011, 12:56 PM

no way your gonna get enough for even close to that price, mixer will take most of that in itself. My cover band we spent that much on 1 of the powered mains and the heaviest we play is like velvet revolver, GnR, Cinderella, etc. for practice in a garage we are using 2 small thump 15a powered speakers for the vocals(about $350ea), playing out we use alot more.

jimbilly · #4 01-10-2011, 03:12 PM

It's true that for metal you'll need some volume! I've done sound for metal and screamo off and on for a few years.
If all you're doing is vocals your mixer won't have to be expensive, a used mackie 1202 should be just about $125-$150. I think a pair of good sized mains with one or two 15s and a real horn, a 400+ watt decent pa (stereo) amp, and any sized mixer, you might be right on budget. Cables and mics aren't free, but I think given some patience you could get a basic-system for that budget.
I'd stay away from the older Peavey speakers, I've replaced a lot of components that failed in those. I think the Peavey amps are durable, but in the used market you should have quite a few choices in the $200 range.

modulusman · #5 01-10-2011, 03:17 PM

Metal band PA for $500-$700.00.

Add a zero on the end and you will be getting in the ball park.

scottbass · #6 01-10-2011, 03:34 PM

Just like Vinny D said!

The only way you can rehearse with a $700 PA is to play very quietly, including your drummer.

A single powered speaker is probably your best bet. You will need a good 1x12 or 1x15 with 300 honest watts, not one of those cheap Nady or Kustom units. You will need a powered speaker that has mic preamps and a rudimentary built in mixer to allow two or three mics to be plugged into the single speaker. Then you can add another powered speaker when you have more funds.

Bean639 · #7 01-10-2011, 03:42 PM

My band used a sam ash credit card and made payments. I think we spent $1800 on a pa and it was worth it. at the time sam ash would hold the interest for the first year so we just made sure we had it paid off by then...

*This only worked because I was lucky enough to be in a band that ABSOLUTELY trusted each other. If you have ANY doubts about anyone in your band... prolly a bad idea.

good luck!

Drunk Heffalump · #8 01-10-2011, 04:39 PM

There are a few questions. Seeing as how everyone immediately suspects you've more full stacks than brains ( Been there, done that, get used to it) I'd like to know what said PA will be competing against. Drummer aside, natch. In the way of cabinets/heads etc.
One angle to exploit is you do have some Mcquades in NS and when they sell off rental gear there are killer bargains to be had. It's how I got my PA, just be sure to ask the key questions about rental history and there are some barely used units in the mix at firesale prices. They finance too, great way to upgun yourself when they offer 0% financing.

I snagged a pair of these

http://www.long-mcquade.com/products...W_Speakers.htm

And this to power 'em up

http://www.long-mcquade.com/products...ered_Mixer.htm

For little more than the cost of the mixer new..........

http://www.long-mcquade.com/locations/Nova_Scotia/

Good luck and Good Hunting

Apocalypse Dude · #9 01-11-2011, 11:13 AM

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I suppose to get something decent I will have to spend the extra money so thats not a problem. I will check out Long & McQuade for some deals on Yorkville stuff, are there any other brands that you guys suggest?

To answer your question Drunk Heffalump my amp is 100 watts and our guitar players' is 75.

mcapote · #10 01-11-2011, 11:33 AM

JBL, Carvin, QSC depends on the money you can eventually spend. Seems all the bands around Miami use JBL unpowered or QSC Powered. I hear great things about Carvin though from other TBers. Im actually using Mackie powered speakers the thump series is cheap but not crappy. about $350 for a powered 400 watt single 15 main. couple of them with a couple of subs seems to work alright for small bars and stuff. we eventually need to upgrade though.

Floyd Eye · #11 01-11-2011, 11:51 AM

Hogwash. For $600 I bought a Yamaha EMX 512 sc ( 2X500 watt) complete with 2 12" mains, 2 12" monitors and 2 crappy mics+ cables.

We are an ignorantly loud band and this PA has plenty of power.

mcapote · #12 01-11-2011, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

Hogwash. For $600 I bought a Yamaha EMX 512 sc ( 2X500 watt) complete with 2 12" mains, 2 12" monitors and 2 crappy mics+ cables.

We are an ignorantly loud band and this PA has plenty of power.

$600 with mains and monitors, not new. the mixer itself is $630 without speakers or mics. so no not really hogwash. matching yamaha mains are gonna run you another $450-$500

**gard0300** · #13 01-11-2011, 12:57 PM

Well we are not a metal band, but we do have a few harder songs. Similiar to Metallica, Megadeth,etc. So not super heavy by any means, but heavy by some people's standards. We bought a pair of used JBL 215s, pair of used Mackie 18" Subs, 2 discontinued Crowns XLS602s, new Alesis Compressor/Limiter, newer 16 channel Tascam mixer, used Audio Centron Xover, Speakon and patch cables for about $1500.00. I think we would be okay for a small venue, but mid to larger we would be paying someone to run sound. There are some decent guys around here that will run sound for 60-100.00 bucks. Pretty cheap considering they do a decent job and we dont move anything. We always call them first and run our own sound as a last resort.

Floyd Eye · #14 01-11-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcapote

$600 with mains and monitors, not new. the mixer itself is $630 without speakers or mics. so no not really hogwash. matching yamaha mains are gonna run you another $450-$500

They didn't run me an extra anything. I got ALL that, used, for $600. The monitors don't match, they are Eminence though.

mcapote · #15 01-11-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

They didn't run me an extra anything. I got ALL that, used, for $600. The monitors don't match, they are Eminence though.

as you said used, op says he cant get used where he lives, he needs new, thats why $600 isnt enough.

Floyd Eye · #16 01-11-2011, 02:23 PM

If I was the OP, I would look at the CL from the nearest big town to me or Ebay. That aside, you are absolutely correct, he won't find anything even close to what he needs for $600.

mcapote · #17 01-11-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

If I was the OP, I would look at the CL from the nearest big town to me or Ebay. That aside, you are absolutely correct, he won't find anything even close to what he needs for $600.

even here in Miami seems like CL is trying to charge close to new for items LOL. luckily im not in nova scotia so I can get shipped from ebay alot easier

hbarcat · #18 01-11-2011, 04:08 PM

If you're only running vocals through the PA then you won't need anything bigger than 10" speakers with a horn. You'd be wasting money buying 12"s or 15"s.

Get a 4 channel amp from Carvin and a cheap mixer from Yamaha. That, along with four 12" monitors with horns (2 for mains and 2 for floor monitors) and some mics, stands and cables and you're set.

Buying new will run about $900 for everything but that's really about as cheap as you can get away with.

Drunk Heffalump · #19 01-11-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalypse Dude

my amp is 100 watts and our guitar players' is 75.

Ok, other than adding the kick onto the PA mix, subtly, with you current wattage you don"t really need to go overboard just yet. Nothing wrong with long term planning however. I was thinking you guys were driving Boogs in a full stack config, with 2 guitars, and you with some 8x10 and ampeg, all tubes of course.
Seeing as how you're keeping it reasonable you DO NOT NEED to blow large amounts of cash on giant PA's. Get enough to get you by, and a little head room to boot and you will be fine.
The only reason to go all in, cash wise, on a PA is when you're going to be handling self made gigs, lots of them preferably. You're not there yet so you should be able to find something quite satisfactory at the price range you specified.

Stumbo · #20 01-12-2011, 01:25 AM

Check out: http://www.daddys.com/

They have lots of used stuff they may work for you. I've had good luck with Peavy SP series p.A. cabs, SPII, SPIII, etc. They have some Peavey cabs for under $200 each.

Maybe the shipping is too much. The stuff I saw ships from Connecticut, about 500 miles from Nova Scotia.

At least you can compare what they are selling to whatever you end up buying.