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08-13-2010, 08:30 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA | | | Quick Connect for Mis-matched Amps In Biamp Config?
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First, the big lie...this is a tri-amped configuration but we're only dealing the with low (1450 watts) and high (2450 watts) powered amps feeding the mains. I'd like to tie in channels A from each amp via 4 conductor 14 gauge cable (same holds true for channels B) to power the mids and highs separately. However, I'd like to set this up in such a way that speaker cables can be quickly connected / disconnected without disrupting the wiring harness. Here's one idea but I'm interested in hearing more:
1) Jury rig a pseudo patch bay with two (L & R) 4-pole Speakons.
2) Connect speaker wire to 1450's terminal strip / channel A and connect to (L) Speakon's +2, -2. This will provide 285 watts for the highs.
3) Connect speaker wire to 2450's terminal strip / channel A and connect to (L) Speakons +1, -1. This will provide 450 watts for the mids.
4) Repeat above steps for channels B and (R) Speakon.
5) Connect 4-conductor speaker cables to each Speakon and run to respective speakers.
In all fairness, I could simply run 4-conductor cables from two separate 2450 amps (the A channel carries both A & B signals) but I really don't want to feed 450 watts into a 6" mid driver and HF horn.
If you can offer suggestions as to "streamlining" the project, please let me know.
Riis
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08-13-2010, 08:47 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Westfield, MA, USA | | | It is not clear to me what you are trying to do.
Are we talking about two biamped tops that you want to run highs off of one amp and lows off of a different, larger amp? So amp 1 left -> highs left box, amp 1 right -> highs right box, amp 2 left -> lows left box, amp 2 right -> lows right box?
That's more or less what I've got going on, everything is on a panel in the amp rack. 4 pole speakon jacks on the front of the panels that are wired to the amps internally. I also have outputs to the subs on the same panel.
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Last edited by projectMalamute : 08-13-2010 at 08:54 PM.
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08-13-2010, 09:05 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by projectMalamute  It is not clear to me what you are trying to do.
Are we talking about two biamped tops that you want to run highs off of one amp and lows off of a different, larger amp? So amp 1 left -> highs left box, amp 1 right -> highs right box, amp 2 left -> lows left box, amp 2 right -> lows right box?
That's more or less what I've got going on, everything is on a panel in the amp rack. 4 pole speakon jacks on the front of the panels that are wired to the amps internally. I also have outputs to the subs on the same panel. | Spot on...and I like your description better than mine.
Riis
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"20% of the money will buy you 90% of the sound..another 30% of the money will buy you another 5% of the sound..you can't buy the remaining 5% of the sound because nobody can agree about what it is." |
08-14-2010, 03:44 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Antonio Texas | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooberwerx ...but I really don't want to feed 450 watts into a 6" mid driver and HF horn. | You actually WON'T be feeding 450w into those drivers unless you crank everything up and there's enough content present to cause the amp to deliver that much power.
Not knowing what speakers and amps you're using, I can only state that headroom is a good thing.
As long as you don't let any morons run your gear, having an excess of available watts is preferred over not enough, by far.
Simplified wiring and easier setup is also good.
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08-14-2010, 08:12 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Westfield, MA, USA | | I'd build an IO panel for the rack, just jacks on a 2 or 3 RU steel plate. Put all the inputs and outputs on that, at a show you just plug stuff in instead of fiddling around in the back of the rack with a flashlight.
Something like this(not mine, just something Google found me): 
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08-14-2010, 08:18 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithAlanK You actually WON'T be feeding 450w into those drivers unless you crank everything up and there's enough content present to cause the amp to deliver that much power.
Not knowing what speakers and amps you're using, I can only state that headroom is a good thing.
As long as you don't let any morons run your gear, having an excess of available watts is preferred over not enough, by far.
Simplified wiring and easier setup is also good. | Good points. Fact is I'd rather invest a 1450 and 2450, as opposed to two 2450's, and do the extra wiring. I'm using two Carvin LS1503's as mains.
There's only one moron running the gear and that's your's truly. Be afraid....be very afraid!
Riis
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"20% of the money will buy you 90% of the sound..another 30% of the money will buy you another 5% of the sound..you can't buy the remaining 5% of the sound because nobody can agree about what it is." |
08-15-2010, 06:05 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN | | |
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08-15-2010, 10:20 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyP | Way too cool! A little more than what I need but that would certainly do the trick. I'm trying to pull this off on the cheap....scrap lumber, speaker wire, 4 pole Speakons, and wood screws.
Riis
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"20% of the money will buy you 90% of the sound..another 30% of the money will buy you another 5% of the sound..you can't buy the remaining 5% of the sound because nobody can agree about what it is." |
08-17-2010, 10:34 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Central, PA | | Don't go cheap on this, the suggestions so far are the best way to go for the price.
Use the binding posts on the back of the amps, wire it up to the rack mounted panel, done. It will actually cost you a lot less than you think, a 1U prepunched plate (Middle Atlantic UNI-1) is only $21 from parts-express.com. Sounds like you have everything else you need.. (don't need to wire up powercons and all that if you don't want to).
If you label things right with a nice neat panel, you might even be able to allow someone to help you without your gear getting fried 
Or I guess you could get out the electrical tape and make a mess out of some adapter cables that will give you nothing but trouble from day 1.. 
I can go over all the details if you want and even mock up something to take pictures of, if you need.
If you have something like:
1. A DriveRack in the same rack as the amps
2. You're running stereo lines in
3. You have 2 amps like you said running A from both amps to one side, and B to the other side through 2 4-conductor speakons.
4. You want to have a powercon for power in
The total cost minus wire is: $43.46 for all the connectors and 1U plate for the rack end of things.. and you should be able to run your 4C straight up to the LS1503's
Re-read and it seems left the subs out to simplify? (the have their own 2C I guess)
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Last edited by JackANSI : 08-17-2010 at 11:06 AM.
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08-17-2010, 10:59 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JackANSI Don't go cheap on this, the suggestions so far are the best way to go for the price.
Use the binding posts on the back of the amps, wire it up to the rack mounted panel, done. It will actually cost you a lot less than you think, a 1U prepunched plate (Middle Atlantic UNI-1) is only $21 from parts-express.com. Sounds like you have everything else you need.. (don't need to wire up powercons and all that if you don't want to).
If you label things right with a nice neat panel, you might even be able to allow someone to help you without your gear getting fried
Or I guess you could get out the electrical tape and make a mess out of some adapter cables that will give you nothing but trouble from day 1..
I can go over all the details if you want and even mock up something to take pictures of, if you need. | No, the wood panel was going to be the only shortcut but the pre-punched plate looks promising. The heavy duty 4 pole Speakons have quick-connect terminals so no soldering is required. I also have the option of using the screw-type terminals on the reverse of each amp as opposed to the binding posts. Thanks for the pics offer; let me get back to you. If the lights dim along the eastern seaboard, you'll know something has gone terribly wrong!
Riis
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"20% of the money will buy you 90% of the sound..another 30% of the money will buy you another 5% of the sound..you can't buy the remaining 5% of the sound because nobody can agree about what it is." |
08-17-2010, 11:14 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Central, PA | | Be sure to get flat counter-sunk screws that accept nuts for the jacks (2-per). If memory serves 6-32 x 3/4 with matching nuts work well.. but take a 4C jack to your hardware store to be sure
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08-17-2010, 11:31 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JackANSI Be sure to get flat counter-sunk screws that accept nuts for the jacks (2-per). If memory serves 6-32 x 3/4 with matching nuts work well.. but take a 4C jack to your hardware store to be sure | That was my next question....how do you mount these things? The partsexpress pic wasn't crystal clear.
Riis
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"20% of the money will buy you 90% of the sound..another 30% of the money will buy you another 5% of the sound..you can't buy the remaining 5% of the sound because nobody can agree about what it is." |
08-17-2010, 11:57 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Central, PA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooberwerx That was my next question....how do you mount these things? The partsexpress pic wasn't crystal clear.
Riis | On the rectangular part of a speakon jack/mic jack/powercon jack there are two fairly standardized holes on opposite corners. There are matching prepunched holes on most prepunched panels..
It can get a bit tricky if you don't space the jacks appropriately but you can get 2 4C speakons side by side if you have tiny fingers or a needle nose..
But I've never had to drill a prepunched panel for 2C, 4C, or powercon.
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Last edited by JackANSI : 08-17-2010 at 12:36 PM.
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08-17-2010, 12:36 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Central, PA | | I had one handy from an older install, its a crappy cellphone pic (from the backside of the panel), but you get the idea: 
Who knows why they don't include pictures like this, you can bearly see the punched-but-not-removed parts and I set it down at such an angle that they looked the most prominent.
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Last edited by JackANSI : 08-17-2010 at 12:46 PM.
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