Quiet Down Those Drums!

[KingRazor]

At my church one issue we have always had with our sound is loud drums. We improved things by building a cage around the drum kit.

Now we're looking at tearing down the current one and making a better one, one that will make better use of the space it is taking up and one that will look nicer on the stage.

One thing me and the worship leader agree on is that if possible, we should figure out a way to make the drums quieter this time around.

I want to have some ideas to bring to the table for when we get around to rebuilding the cage. Any ideas?

I've considered using pads on the drums in the past, but they just cut too much of the tone. The worship leader and I agree that we would rather have the drums a bit too loud and sound good than have the volume right and crappy sounding drums.

[BigOldHarry]

Thing I'd try, in order:

1) Hot Rods
2) Brushes
3) New Drummer

[Rebop]

Sounds like a problem with the drummer. Tell him to play quietly. Listen to western swing like Bob Wills or Junior Brown to get a sense of how a drummer should play. No need to pound the skins like Alex Van Halen.

[KingRazor]

Telling the drummer to quiet down really doesn't work. It's not that they don't listen.

The drummer who is drumming most of the time is an intern at our church who took over when our old drummer up and left the church suddenly. She had to learn a lot in a very short time and is doing as well as she can but she wasn't really a musician to start with, she's made a LOT of progress in a surprisingly short amount of time, but has had no formal training.

Thankfully, we have a couple of other drummers who have since started playing for us, but they can only play every so often because of their busy work schedules.

So our faithful little intern is still doing the bulk of the drumming. She has us sound guys telling her to play softer but then the band leader or one of the other more experienced drummers will tell her to pound those drums, so she winds up trying to please everyone. In the end, she usually follows the highest authority which often winds up also being the guy who likes loud drums.

I'll see if I can talk to all of the drummers and the band/worship leader and see if I can get everyone to agree to have drummers play a little softer.

We are still going to rebuild that cage though, and tips on how to make sure it has the most acoustic dampening power possible would still be helpful.

EDIT: Let me clarify some things.

The band leader and worship leader are two seperate people, husband and wife, actually.

The band leader is the lead guitar player, lead male vocalist and also our church's youth pastor.

His wife is the worship leader and in charge of the worship department as a whole.

I'm one of a few sound guys serving under the band leader and worship leader.

I don't think the band leader actually believes that our problem is drummers playing too hard. It appears he simply believes we haven't done enough to make the drums themselves quieter acoustically.

Just about everyone agrees the drums are too loud, we just don't all agree on why they are too loud.

[Hellbastard]

If telling the drummer that she needs to improve her technique in order to play softer; there's not much you can do to reduce the level of an acoustic Drum set without using a Drumcage.
As Bigoldharry said, Brushe or Hot rods help, but the change in volume level is not very noticeable, if proper technique is not used.

Maybe you could get an Arbiter Flats drum set. That way, not only, you reduce the stage volume but also gain a little bit of stage space. A friend used to have a set of these and they sound really when properly mic'ed.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by Hellbastard

If telling the drummer that she needs to improve her technique in order to play softer; there's not much you can do to reduce the level of an acoustic Drum set without using a Drumcage.
As Bigoldharry said, Brushe or Hot rods help, but the change in volume level is not very noticeable, if proper technique is not used.

Maybe you could get an Arbiter Flats drum set. That way, not only, you reduce the stage volume but also gain a little bit of stage space. A friend used to have a set of these and they sound really when properly mic'ed.

We are still using a cage, we're just going to build a new one that will hopefully do a better job of absorbing most of the acoustic volume of the drums.

We spent a lot of money on the current drum set so I'm pretty sure a new set is out of the question.

[Muzoid]

Originally Posted by Rebop

Sounds like a problem with the drummer. Tell him to play quietly. Listen to western swing like Bob Wills or Junior Brown to get a sense of how a drummer should play. No need to pound the skins like Alex Van Halen.

I could never tell a drummer to 'play quiet', just as I wouldn't listen to him giving me technique advice.

There are ways of making a drummer volume less 'in your face'...the booth is on the right track.

I say, turn everyone up and 'rock the church' hard!

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by Muzoid

I could never tell a drummer to 'play quiet', just as I wouldn't listen to him giving me technique advice.

There are ways of making a drummer volume less 'in your face'...the booth is on the right track.

I say, turn everyone up and 'rock the church' hard!

Ha ha! Our band leader would love you.

The senior Pastor of the church has set a limit of 94dB. If it gets louder than that, we turn it down. Period. It's his church, so regardless of what we think about the quality of sound and how loud we think it should be, it's his way or no way.

[Muzoid]

Open up the Decibel Meter...put a thick cloth over the transducer.

You'll be sittin' at 110db, and the meter will read 90db - hahaha

(most) Churches are super ambient...that why some people are afraid to fart in church, because it will ring out and echo.

I would suggest the booth be fairly enclosed (ceiling too)....just make sure he gets some air.

PS...farting in the drum booth, right before he enters is ALWAYS good for a few laughs

[Rebop]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Ha ha! Our band leader would love you.

The senior Pastor of the church has set a limit of 94dB. If it gets louder than that, we turn it down. Period.

I play a club sometimes that has a db limiter. If you crank it a little too much the power to the stage gets killed. Fun times!

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by Rebop

I play a club sometimes that has a db limiter. If you crank it a little too much the power to the stage gets killed. Fun times!

We're capable of going above that limit (and we frequently do on youth nights) but the Pastor doesn't want it any louder than that.

[Rockmusician]

The interiors of churches are designed to project sound. The problem might not be with the drummer. Try a plexi glass drum shield or have the drummer use brushes.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by Rockmusician

The interiors of churches are designed to project sound. The problem might not be with the drummer. Try a plexi glass drum shield or have the drummer use brushes.

We already have a shield as part of the drum cage.

The drummers have brushes but they are only used for certain songs and no one wants them to be used for every song.

[schecter5string]

you may like these, we use them, you will still get the volume, but it works wonder for the overtones and makes most kits sound better:

Buy RTOM Moongel Percussion Dampening Gels | Dampening Rings | Musician's Friend

here is the description:
Moongel Dampening Gels effectively control unwanted overtones.

RTOM Moongel Dampening Gels effectively control unwanted drum overtones. Designed to be versatile tone modifiers, self-adhesive Moongels stick to the surface of your drums, cymbals, and most percussion instruments. The possibilities are endless.

By simply moving the damper pad around the percussive surface, you'll eliminate any unwanted resonance and obtain the exact sound the situation demands.

Moongel damper pads are washable and retain their stickiness for years of service. Use them over and over again. Moongel Damper Pads are made from a soft non-toxic gel, and come in a 4-pack plastic canister.

Drummers and sound studios around the world use this award-winning product. Try a set today.

[Muzoid]

Calling it a 'cage' is insulting to Zoo Animals everywhere.....the trusted vernacular is 'Booth'

Haha, just kidding...call it whatever ya want

Cell, Pit, Dungeon, Box, Hole.....all good as well.

[pedroims]

Electronic drums my friend ... we are moving to a new building soon, I am triying to convince the pastor that e-drums is the way to go.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by schecter5string

you may like these, we use them, you will still get the volume, but it works wonder for the overtones and makes most kits sound better:

Buy RTOM Moongel Percussion Dampening Gels | Dampening Rings | Musician's Friend

here is the description:
Moongel Dampening Gels effectively control unwanted overtones.

RTOM Moongel Dampening Gels effectively control unwanted drum overtones. Designed to be versatile tone modifiers, self-adhesive Moongels stick to the surface of your drums, cymbals, and most percussion instruments. The possibilities are endless.

By simply moving the damper pad around the percussive surface, you'll eliminate any unwanted resonance and obtain the exact sound the situation demands.

Moongel damper pads are washable and retain their stickiness for years of service. Use them over and over again. Moongel Damper Pads are made from a soft non-toxic gel, and come in a 4-pack plastic canister.

Drummers and sound studios around the world use this award-winning product. Try a set today.

I've actually suggested these. I really think they could help the tone of the drums a lot.

Don't know if they'll help with the volume problem though.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by pedroims

Electronic drums my friend ... we are moving to a new building soon, I am triying to convince the pastor that e-drums is the way to go.

Like I said in a previous post, we spent a lot on these drums. A new set is more or less out of the question.

[Muzoid]

Originally Posted by pedroims

Electronic drums my friend ... we are moving to a new building soon, I am triying to convince the pastor that e-drums is the way to go.

I used to gig with an electro drummer....the ability to monitor volume is awesome!...as well soundchecks take about 2 mins (bonus!)

But none of them seem to like the response of the kiks.

So it's an acoustic kik with the rest electros....and kiks can be dampened lots.

This is a good way to go, if the drummer is into it.

[mccartneyman]

A lot of it is technique and experience. We rotate three drummers, only one of whom is schooled. No problem when he plays. The other two are a 15-year-old who is immensely talented but incapable of backing off. The other is actually a guitarist who plays BBL drums -- Basic But Loud. Heavy foot, heavy snare. We've tried rods, brushes, you name it. Not much help. Short of throwing Ringo-style towels on the drums, it's pretty much a losing battle. We have a plexiglas cage to block come of the pure sound. However, I think that our main problem stems from having our stage monitors too loud. Guitar levels are finally down where they should be, but hte monitors scream. I'm 30 feet from the front wedges and I hear everything like I was two feet away. I have a 600 wayy amp that I have to run halfway to hear myself onstage. If I get more than three feet from my cabs (2 112's) I lose everything but the monitors.