renting stereo PA?

[gregoire1]

we're playing an outdoor gig and required to provide our own PA. My frontman suggested renting a stereo PA since we all use stereo effects. Does anyone perform in stereo? Are there complications to this? I'm not a soundguy and have never had to be one before.

[GregShadoan]

No complications. Just run everything panned streight up. I think it might be harder to rent a "mono" system. The only thing in mono anymore are really small systems, or very large systems will run subs mono. Sonetimes center/lip fills. Everything that has been manufactured in the last ten years is 2 channel.
Just run the left to the left, right to the right and have fun :-)

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by gregoire1

we're playing an outdoor gig and required to provide our own PA. My frontman suggested renting a stereo PA since we all use stereo effects. Does anyone perform in stereo? Are there complications to this? I'm not a soundguy and have never had to be one before.

The last thing you should be worried about playing outdoors. I would be more concerned as to whether or not you have a big enough PA to do the job.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by modulusman

The last thing you should be worried about playing outdoors. I would be more concerned as to whether or not you have a big enough PA to do the job.

Yeah, our keyboard guy used to insist on running stereo. We gave him crap all the time and he has been going mono for a while now. The effect is really wasted on most crowds anyway.

[gregoire1]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Yeah, our keyboard guy used to insist on running stereo. We gave him crap all the time and he has been going mono for a while now. The effect is really wasted on most crowds anyway.

It just occured to me that the guitar will be miked, thus nullifying any of his stereo effects, and we have no keyboard, so, there really won't be much benefit.


But....


It sure would be cool to use some stereo bass effects for a change...

[greenboy]

Forget STEREO effects - you'll do your best to get the basics right - or at least not too wrong. A lot of times pan knobs on the mixer are used for other purposes anyway, and unless one is experienced at mixing in stereo they can do more damage than good trying to do so. It also requires a lot more amplifiers usually.

[gregoire1]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Forget STEREO effects - you'll do your best to get the basics right - or at least not too wrong. A lot of times pan knobs on the mixer are used for other purposes anyway, and unless one is experienced at mixing in stereo they can do more damage than good trying to do so. It also requires a lot more amplifiers usually.

Thanks for BREAKING MY HEART!!!! You may be right though, its an outdoor street festival thing, on a large concrete stage. Renting an large enough PA may be cost prohibitive since it'll be on our dime.

Thanks for the suggestions

[GregShadoan]

It might be helpful to think of it as a 2 channel mono system. You have your left stack/amp channel, and your right stack/amp channel. Nobody will benefit from a "stereo" mix unless there in the center anyway. Big rooms, and tours will pan things like keyboards, overheads, toms, and stuff, but as mentioned above, better to focus on getting a system large enough, and not to rat hole on the stereo thing.

[kalle74]

actually, a suspended mono system (think U2 PopMart tour) would be your best bet. Unless all of the crowd sits center-stage, most stereo effects would be wasted. Worry about power and coverage. If the SPL-limitations aren´t ridiculous (like 85 dBSPL ASlow) you´ll want to get a big system out there... On your dime? Scary...

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by greenboy

It also requires a lot more amplifiers usually.

Yep, I found that out. Our single "budget" power amp does 300 watts per side (per box) in stereo but puts out ~600-700 watts per box in bridged mono. According to the math, we sound twice as good as before! This pertains to our mains; we've always pushed the subs in bridged mono.

Riis

[Eric Moesle]

Don't just rent gear, rent a system from a local sound company. They'll bring the gear, set it up, and run sound for you, then tear it all down and take it back. No muss, no fuss.

We pay around $300 a night for excellent gear and service, huge system that can handle most outdoor shows, separate monitor mixes, the whole shabang.

[bassman1185]

I'll add my voice to the "Stereo is a waste of time live" chorus. Only about 10% of the audience is going to get the full effect, plus it's twice as hard for the soundguy to mix, plus it takes up twice as many channels on the board, plus the effect (even when it's done right) is pretty subtle, plus it's harder to set up.

Edit: I will add that my guitarist plays through a Marshall JCM1000 halfstack and a Mesa/Boogie F100 combo live, set up in stereo through a Boss DD-7. It sounds good because there are two very distinct tones bouncing back and forth with the echo, but when we have full PA support, I'm sure both amps are mixed evenly left and right.

[Pacman]

I'll run counter to the "waste of time" crew. Our band runs stereo for every gig. Now, things usually don't get panned to the extremes, but panning helps "declutter" a mix very quickly.

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by Pacman

I'll run counter to the "waste of time" crew. Our band runs stereo for every gig. Now, things usually don't get panned to the extremes, but panning helps "declutter" a mix very quickly.

I'm not of the "waste of time" crew. I'm of the "it's not worth blowing your gig when you are an inexperienced soundman" crew ; }

[Codger]

I was in a group that ran a stereo live FOH mix. The difference between the stereo and mono live sound was stunning. IMO however the conditions needed on the live sound setup to make it effective were so restrictive that were such a situation to ever present itself to me again, I doubt I would put up with it. But it did sound good.

It really didn't matter what a listener's position was relative to the speakers because he could hear all the feeds from each and still perceive the stereo spread.

To me it only makes sense if all the instruments are through the FOH, with no stage volume audible out front. Otherwise the idea of separation is sort of lost in the roar coming off the stage.

YMMV but here was our take on it:

• The stereo was FOH only. Monitors were mono.
  
• Every instrument had a stereo feed and each L and R were fed equally balanced. There was no panwise mixing.
  
• The stereo was used to create spread, not to "place sources in the image".
  
• For vocals or mono instruments, from a microphone say (saxophone), a synthesized stereo signal was created with something as simple as a fixed delay or reverb. L = mono_in + wet, R = mono_in - wet. This function is in most simple effects boxes like delay/reverb units.
  
• The PA was run as high-fidelity as possible (lots of headroom).
  
• There was very low stage volume. It could not be heard out front. I suspect this is probably the most restrictive thing. It eliminates anything but the smallest bass amplifers and most tube guitar amps, at least when they are run they way most guitarists seem to want to.
  
• Baffling the drum kit is a good idea (drummer's already baffled).

We did this for small rooms. It might actually be easier in larger venues where there is more separation on stage and there is no stage volume out front anyway.

[Stumbo]

Did you include the cost of renting a PA in your contract, i.e, raising your price to cover it?

You'll also need to pay a "sound guy". As suggested before, find a sound company and pay them, if you can afford it.

Seems to me that this is something that needed to be researched before you guys agreed to play.