ringing out PA for bar gigs

[Tbranella]

Originally Posted by Big_Daws

buy a driverack pa+ and a RTA mic. plug it into the drive rack run the auto EQ wizard, and save it.

its not SUPER perfecto, however its totally usable. the other plus side is that you can always recall it from venue to venue...save time on the repeat visits.

we use a Driverack PA in our system and never have a problem with feedback..
we get complements on our sound from a lot of people that are in the industry, we once did a gig alternating sets with another band (we are good friends with the other band) at a local club and had two sound systems setup, ours and theirs, they hire a sound company to do their sound and we were told all night long that our sound was way better than theirs! even the band members from the other band said the same thing! LOL!

We swear on the Driverack PA.. it does everything!

[cheapbasslovin]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

Since you play there regularly, take 15 minutes after the next gig and ring out the system, then write down the settings. Assuming you set up the same way every time you should be pretty much good to go.

+1. If you can't do it before, the next logical thing seems to be to do it after and make some reasonably detailed notes for next time.

[Misty Mountain]

I use an EQ with feedback detection on it that can help if there is a problem as I can just see what frequency is the issue and adjust accordingly. I too run sound from the stage while playing bass, so anything that makes for a quick adjustment is useful. I haven't tried one of the automated feedback suppressors, but that might work, too.

[DONZI97]

I haven't gigged out my new band yet, but for our practice space we are using our powered mains for monitors in a tight space, so we had lots of feedback. My solution was using an iPad RTA app in-conjunction with the 31 band eq and ringing it out, then identifying the problem frees with the iPad. When I was doing it, I don't think I let any feedback get out of control volume wise.

[themacinator]

Originally Posted by camthebassman

Maybe it was the recording, but all I hear is drums and vocals. Why is the drum mic'd? Seems like major overkill...the drums are by far the loudest instrument on stage. Very clean stage set-up....I wish we could trim down to that size!! nice song, too!

If you listen with headphones or with good computer speaker system you will hear the real mix. Small stock computer speakers just don't cut it.

Drums are mic'd to get them in the PA. For some reason his kit is all crash, bang, wallop if we don't. This was in a massive hall that was not designed for live music so this was about the best we could do.

[eriky4003]

For microphone feedback issues you may want to go (if you haven't already) with super cardioid microphones which have higher gain before feedback when the monitors are place correctly (Shure Beta 58, EV 767 or 967). You need to be really close to the microphone to be heard clearly but check the mic specs for proper monitor placement which will allow you to turn up the lead singer's microphone but not get more feedback.
Good luck.

[will33]

Mix from stage here too with old-school stuff, no driveracks, measurement mics or that stuff.

I almost never have feedback issues from mains. Some finicky monitors from time to time, bit for whatever reason, my monitor is always somewhere around 1khz seemingly regardless of venue or setup, so I just always start with that slider chopped, then see how much I can put in before the problem starts. Do this by waving a mic around to make sure it's gonna stay quiet.

That's about it. I think just having more time in different venues, more experience with both your gear and your band, as well as not having to crank your gear to the utmost of it's abilities helps a lot.

I do the majority of backing vocals in our grouo, but our "soundcheck song" is one the guitar player takes backups on so I can walk around and listen. By the end of the song, we're all set.

We all have dayjobs and most have families and stuff too. We're not going to be anywhere 4-5 hours ahead of time, so, +1 to sticking around a few minutes after one time to find the problems and make note of the fixes if you can't do it beforehand.

[monkeyking]

I'm definitely not a sound engineer, but I did a lot of research before buying the latest PA, and I can say the Driverack PA has been great for us.

We were in a weird room last week and getting a ringing frequency (most likely the stupid loud guitarist getting into the mics). While setting up, the keyboardist ran the feedback deal while I was off getting beer. Took all of a second or two and I never even heard it from the bar. Can't imagine anyone having a gripe about that.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by monkeyking

I'm definitely not a sound engineer, but I did a lot of research before buying the latest PA, and I can say the Driverack PA has been great for us.

We were in a weird room last week and getting a ringing frequency (most likely the stupid loud guitarist getting into the mics). While setting up, the keyboardist ran the feedback deal while I was off getting beer. Took all of a second or two and I never even heard it from the bar. Can't imagine anyone having a gripe about that.

I'm pretty sure you can set the feedback suppression without "pinking" the room which, in itself, can get pretty loud. Just place the RTA mic as directed, slowly drive the main faders upward, and you can actually hear the system capture & squelch the offending frequencies.

Riis

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

I'm pretty sure you can set the feedback suppression without "pinking" the room which, in itself, can get pretty loud. Just place the RTA mic as directed, slowly drive the main faders upward, and you can actually hear the system capture & squelch the offending frequencies.

Riis

Many auto eqs don't have this ....

In "theory" it's better to use performance mics for feedback testing ---- I have a vocal mic that's very mid scooped --- if I sang through an sm57 the response would be different

[Lindsay]

Originally Posted by Stev187

...

Since nobody chimed in about the feedback suppression units, I am guessing folks don't think of that as a great option. I was tempted to grab a couple of Peavey Feedback Farret IIs (available used for about $100/ea). I don't think $200 is going to solve my problem, but if it could help in some way, that would be a very tempting solution.

--Steve

The dbx DriveRack includes feedback suppression. From what I have read, it's the answer to your problems. You can: save the EQ once for the room; set up quietly; and suppress feedback. Have a look for one second hand - you'll only pay $100 more to get the right piece of gear.

I don't have experience with the Peavey unit, but I have a DriveRack PA+ and a Behringer Feedback Destroyer. The DriveRack is great on FOH - that's what it's for. I wouldn't use the Behringer on FOH in a room prone to feedback because it's quite brutal in what it removes and can leave your FOH (or monitors) without big slabs of frequency spectrum.

To my ears, the DriveRack takes a more clinical notch out at the offending frequency. YMMV - maybe my ears just hear the Behringer logo I tend only to use the feedback destroyer on monitors for bands that rawk hard and loud to the detriment of their own sound.

[RobbieNuke]

I've had experience using several different brands/models of feedback eliminators since the 90's. Personally, I think they are great for any situation similar to yours, or whenever a soundman is not available (i.e. mixing from stage). They work the entire time the band is performing, during breaks, etc. A stereo unit is best (one channel for FOH, the other for monitor), and the newer the better (more frequencies, narrower bands, etc). If you have more than one monitor channel you may have to consider more than one unit or not use it in FOH... depending on where the feedback problem(s) occur most.

[James Judson]

Originally Posted by eriky4003

For microphone feedback issues you may want to go (if you haven't already) with super cardioid microphones which have higher gain before feedback when the monitors are place correctly (Shure Beta 58, EV 767 or 967). You need to be really close to the microphone to be heard clearly but check the mic specs for proper monitor placement which will allow you to turn up the lead singer's microphone but not get more feedback.
Good luck.

Get this man a gum ball. He's the first to address the problem at the source.

Feedback is the relationship of a mic and speaker. Often its as easy as just moving one or the other.

If there is a weaker mic (like a Radio Shack special) you will not be able to turn up a stronger mic (like a SM58, can you say 1 kilohertz).

At the very least every vocal mic should to be the same. Reduces the problem of a good mic kicking off the oscillation of a weaker mic. Better yet use mics with a close proximity effect.

I almost never experience feed back. I use Audix OM3's ($125 ea.). I set the EQ flat. Turn it up and I'm good to go. Once in a while I have to reduce a frequency or two to make up for room acoustics. I also recommend one third octave EQ's on every power amp for the most control.

When I hear a really good sounding PA I check out the equipment and find EQ's set really flat.

With all that said, give any PA enough gain and you guessed it "FEEDBACK". Keeping stage volume down will help too.

YMMV

[camthebassman]

Originally Posted by James Judson

Get this man a gum ball.

At the very least every vocal mic should to be the same. Reduces the problem of a good mic kicking off the oscillation of a weaker mic. Better yet use mics with a close proximity effect.

+1

My band is fighting this constantly...5 vocal mics...all different brands/models/quality. Almost impossible to adjust the setup so that everyone hears themselves without feedback.

Trying to get everyone to buy Shure Beta58s. We have one and it's the nuts...tight cardoid pattern that significantly reduces bleed and is less sensitive to monitor placement.

They'll spend $100 on booze, but will not pony up $150 for a good microphone. I'm hoping Santa is real!

[MNAirHead]

Sucks to be in a band like this....

Originally Posted by camthebassman

+1

My band is fighting this constantly...5 vocal mics...all different brands/models/quality. Almost impossible to adjust the setup so that everyone hears themselves without feedback.

Trying to get everyone to buy Shure Beta58s. We have one and it's the nuts...tight cardoid pattern that significantly reduces bleed and is less sensitive to monitor placement.

They'll spend $100 on booze, but will not pony up $150 for a good microphone. I'm hoping Santa is real!

[Stev187]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

How loud is your stage volume... are the montors and/or mics cheap?

Just checking back to say THANK YOU to everyone who chimed in on this and give you an update. Last weekend we played the same room with the same gear. The only difference... the very loud DJ that was playing before us through the house system (which we did not use) was gone. So I got to do the setup and system adjustments without DJ music blaring. I set up just as before, brought the monitor mix to the edge of feedback, made a couple of tweaks and... presto. Best mix we've had all year and no feedback problems.

Now, the only other thing that was different was our drummer didn't use his crummy wireless headset mic. He used a regular mic on a boom. Most EQ was totally flat and the mix sounded nice. It was kind of empty during our 3rd set, so I walked out to the middle of the room on a few tunes. I can be happy with that mix.

So, who knows? Maybe it was that dang DJ music. I saved all the settings. But I learned a lot in this thread, so thanks. I think I will invest in new Mics, as we have mis-matched vocal mics out front (one SM58 and some cheaper AKG things).

Would a matched set of Beta58s be significantly better than a similar set of SM58s? We gotta stick with those because the singer likes this mic.

--Steve

[Stone Soup]

Originally Posted by Stev187

Would a matched set of Beta58s be significantly better than a similar set of SM58s?

I believe the mic should match the voice. Not everyone will sound good through a Beta58. Not everyone will sound good through a SM58. I don't think it's a good idea to have the same mic for everyone; just to have GOOD mics for everyone.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by Stone Soup

I believe the mic should match the voice. Not everyone will sound good through a Beta58. Not everyone will sound good through a SM58. I don't think it's a good idea to have the same mic for everyone; just to have GOOD mics for everyone.

This is very true - I own 60+ mics .... Went to a pro sound (only) store--- the staff oscilloscoped my voice - then suggested a floor Tom mic

I sound awful through any type 58 --- not bad, just mismated