Running sound from stage. Who handles it?

RichardCranium · #1 03-16-2011, 03:55 PM

For those that do their own sound from stage.

Do you have a dedicated person that handles it or does each person handle their own. I'm talking about monitor mixes more so than FOH sound although that applies also.

I'm more or less the soundman for our band and have the mixer next to my rig on stage but as the bass player it's tough to let the groove suffer to make adjustments. On the flip side it distracts from the show when the others come across the stage to make adjustments to their mix. My guitar & singer are new to IEM and have to tweak a lot to get the mix to their liking.

Also sometimes our FOH suffers with everyone making small adjustments. We can't afford a dedicated soundman at this time and we mostly play casinos and clubs when we are responsible for own sound.

I don't mind handlling the sound I prefer it but as we all know we rarely have a spot in songs when we're not playing but is it better to drop out for a bar or have the others stop the flow of the show to walk over and make an adjustment. Any advice is welcome.

lowfreq33 · #2 03-16-2011, 04:02 PM

I'm in pretty much the same situation. I just wait for a spot where I don't need both hands to play the line. Most of the time it's fine. I'd rather the others tell me and adjust it myself so I know exactly what's been changed.

Mjury02 · #3 03-16-2011, 05:06 PM

I'm also the soundman in our band. I was the one who bought the mixers, we use an unpowered for FOH, and a powered for the monitors, so I feel most comfortable running them. Also, I have done the most research on setting up gain structures and speaker placement. Luckily we have a few people that follow us pretty regularly, who's ears I trust, and they will let us know what needs to be changed as far as FOH goes. It'd be nice to have a soundman, but we don't make enough money playing small towns in central Illinois. The local soundman want $250 per night, which leaves us making less than what we feel we should. Also rent a nice JBL system, that is big enough to do any show that we would need to do, but eventually plan on building some BFM designs, to get rid of that cost. We've tried using friends as soundmen, but they don't feel comfortable enough with the board, so we have strayed away from that, and I just took it upon myself to learn how to do everything.

RichardCranium · #4 03-16-2011, 05:14 PM

OT Just noticed this is thread 2112 in this category. :rush:

walterw · #5 03-16-2011, 08:08 PM

IEMs are a bitch until they're dialed in just so.

in some cases it's faster for the guy to tweak his own mix than to try and tell you what he needs, especially if it's anything more complicated than looking at you, tapping his vocal mic and pointing up. hopefully all this crap gets settled in soundcheck, or at least in the first couple of songs.

that said, there needs to be one guy tweaking FOH! suggestions from audience members or band guys jumping out in the crowd to listen need to still go through that one guy.

more clever wiring (i need to try this myself) with stereo IEMs set to mono can be employed to give each guy a "more me" option, where their regular mix is on one input, and their primary channel (vox, inst, whatever) is on the other by itself.

they could then work the pan control on their receivers to adjust between their main "thing" and everything else, which might take care of most of the issues they'd have.

(oh, and if you haven't guessed, the guy who handles all this in bands that i'm in is me

)

fokof · #6 03-16-2011, 10:25 PM

It's a big enough job to play the bass correctly , so I never play while I'm mixing.

Passinwind · #7 03-16-2011, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fokof

It's a big enough job to play the bass correctly , so I never play while I'm mixing.

+100000

Occasionally I have no choice, but usually I only have one vocal mike and my own instruments to contend with in those cases.

RichardCranium · #8 03-16-2011, 11:57 PM

Couple of more things.

Found out that until recently they didn't use separate monitor mixes just duped the FOH feed into the wedges.

Also the 2 with the IEM are trying to make the only one ear deal work and have a wedge also and I think they need to commit to one or the other. (I can't afford an IEM yet but I plan on getting them eventually I have a wedge with my own mix)

Also the singer is so used to a certain thing and has a tough time adapting to something new/different.

StuartV · #9 03-17-2011, 08:54 AM

I'm the drummer in my working band, and I own all the PA. Occasionally we hire a sound guy to run the board for us from out front. But most of the time, the board is setup very close to me and I run it.

The simple solution is: get your shtuff together before the show starts, so you don't have to mess with it during the show. Of course, that's easier said than done. But, as long as you get it close before the show, you can tell everybody to suck it up once the show starts. If they need a change to something, wait until the song ends and then ask you to change it (adjust their monitor mix or whatever). No changing mixes in the middle of a song.

Zooberwerx · #10 03-17-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartV

I'm the drummer in my working band, and I own all the PA. Occasionally we hire a sound guy to run the board for us from out front. But most of the time, the board is setup very close to me and I run it.

The simple solution is: get your shtuff together before the show starts, so you don't have to mess with it during the show. Of course, that's easier said than done. But, as long as you get it close before the show, you can tell everybody to suck it up once the show starts. If they need a change to something, wait until the song ends and then ask you to change it (adjust their monitor mix or whatever). No changing mixes in the middle of a song.

Same thing here. We use the "set it and forget it" approach and tweak accordingly when something glaringly obnoxious appears. I like to send out a "scout" during the first tune...somebody with a good ear...to scope things out and report back.

Riis

rtslinger · #11 03-17-2011, 02:26 PM

Our Sound man is our Keyboard player who also performs this type of work in his daytime job so he was the best man for the job. It is easy also for us to play a song he isn't playing on to perform the sound check and tweaks as we need it. But after the first set we also ask trusted ears in the crowd "hows the mix" Sound is never a set and forget it but we have learned to use pedals and feel to control the dynamics in songs so it is nearly a set it and forget in our situation once we have dialed into the rooms acoustics. This is for club gigs large outdoor shows we hire a soundman if one is not provided.

BassGen · #12 03-17-2011, 02:34 PM

I run the sound for our band. I try not to fuss with it too much while we are playing. I also own our PA. We have unpowered FOH and powered monitors. I run a separate mix to each. We don't mic our amps so each of us has to adjust accordingly there. We rely on trusted ears in the audience for feedback on that. I'd like a FOH soundman but can't afford either him or the extra gear we'd need to run it properly. Not really expected in bars that we play in anyway.

Pat C. · #13 03-17-2011, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCranium

For those that do their own sound from stage.

Couple of things:

You're equipment needs to be up to the task. Do you have good quality monitors, enough power, enough and the right kind of EQs, a mixer with enough outputs and the proper routing for your application? A list of equipment and how you're routing things may help us advise if there are any setup issues.

The band needs to have their stuff together sonically. The musicians need to be cognizant of how they sound in the stage mix and take some responsibility for balancing themselves in the stage environment. If you have a drummer (or other player) who plays quietly during soundcheck when you set gain structure and then bangs away like a baboon when the first set starts then you'll be fighting a losing battle.

-------------------------------------

In-ear monitors should (in theory) be the easiest monitors to handle from gig to gig, once they are set up. The key is consistency from gig to gig with gain structure and EQ. This requires that the guitarist, bassist, keys, etc. send pretty consistent signal levels to the board during each gig, and from gig to gig.

Once most levels are set and you've had a chance to soundcheck few adjustments should need to made. If they are needed they should happen between songs, most sonic issues are not that critical that each bandmember needs to traipse across the stage to make minor adjustments in the middle of a song. If they are that critical, then something is off in the setup, go back and look at the setup and soundcheck processes and see if they can be improved.

Don't expect to accomplish the same quality mix that you would if doing sound from FOH, mixing monitors without playing as well. This is a case of "do the best you can under the circumstances". The band applying proper dynamics becomes crucial since you don't have the luxury of pushing faders up for solos, to a large extent the band needs to mix itself.

All IMO and IME.

gnjpowell · #14 03-19-2011, 12:28 PM

We use 4x 8-ch pods at our church and allow the musicians to each do their own monitor mix. They can use in-ears or a wedge, but each wedge does need an amp channel. The sound guy only has to do initial set-up to be sure that each instrument is in the correct ch of the monitor pod system and the levels are all good. The system is from Hear Technologies: Hear Technologies Hear Back Six Pack | Personal Monitor Mixing System | CCI Solutions

Rockmusician · #15 03-19-2011, 12:37 PM

I prefer to have a sound man but have played in a band where the guitarist, who also happened to be the lead singer ran sound. The problem was that his guitar was always so loud that we were constantly being told to turn down.

Stinsok · #16 03-20-2011, 04:30 PM

I own the PA and run it from the stage. I don't like it, but it keeps the money from being cut again. It is really hard for me because everybody "sandbags" on the volume. I'm thinking of investing in a wireless so I can leave the stage and really tell what's going on.

prd004 · #17 03-20-2011, 04:33 PM

Whoever plays the most instruments and has the most sound knowlege-Me!

Never_grew_up · #18 03-20-2011, 04:53 PM

Unfortunately in our case, it depends. If we use house PA then I'm free to do whatever I want (that the club will allow). I have a wireless for my bass so I can walk out in the house & hear the mix. The guitar player owns the PA that we rehearse with and use to play out with if we need to provide PA. He's very a much a "no one touches my stuff but me" kind of guy (even though he doesn't really know that much about it) so we have to suffer with his mix when it's his PA.
That really sux because he wears earplugs when he plays so the mix is trebly as hell and he's sure my bass is always too loud but once I walk out 10 - 15 ft in front of the band his guitar is shrill as hell and even covers the drummer from time to time.

MNAirHead · #19 03-21-2011, 07:54 AM

I do...

Couple of notes..

1-Rackmount digital board
2-everyone direct
3-my IEMs to foh
4-I don't dork with nuances once the set starts... pros self level.
5-I built my entire setup from the ground up with tenured engineers...

Overall... one of the best pieces of advice I got on doing this (from a VERY high caliber sound engineer) was to have one monitor mix.. then have the band acclimate to the mix -- he commented that self-sound tweeking for monitors is not efficient.

IF someone wants a "more me" mix, they have to buy a pass through mixer and IEM.... (or thier own powered mixer)

Second best advice.. everyone IEM... drop the stage volume considerably....

They all comment IEM (once dialed in) is the most efficient method of doing this.

RichardCranium · #20 03-22-2011, 06:56 PM

@PatC:

We have a 16 channel Allen & Heath board with 6 aux sends, 2 are for effects and 4 are individual sends. 4 vocal mics, 5 for drums, (kick, snare, rack toms, floor toms, hi hat) guitar is mic'd, bass is direct and laptop sequencer direct. Gates on lead vox and drummer vocal mic to help with bleed from the stage.
Drummer wears regular headphones into a mini mixer that's split between his mix and the sequencer/click track.
Guitarist has in ears and is still getting used to them his stage volume isn't a big issue he turns his cabinet backwards but usually only wears one earphone.
Singer has a wedge with the main mix plus in ears and goes back and forth depending on the song/her
mood/conditions.
I can't afford in ears yet so I have to use a wedge for now which I have my mix in.
They both have the Audio Technica M2 units with stock earphones. Singer is set up with mix+her and guitar is set up with mix+guitar.

I've brought it up that they either need to commit to the in ears or go back to wedges that all they're doing in confusing themselves and the frequent going over to adjust something is interrupting the show. My mix isn't perfect but I can deal with it. I know it can throw you off your game when the sound isn't happening but it makes us look smalltime when the frequent adjustments throw off the flow of the show.

Having said that when we set up to soundcheck for this week I insisted we start with vocals first rather than last and things seem to go better last night.

Hope this helps.