Small gig sound checks

[geoff_in_nc]

I need some help figuring out the procedure to go through to get a decent sound mix.... a soundcheck "how-to" basically.

We're a 4pc + singer (3 singing total), small bars/pubs, pole mounted mains + monitors, nothing mic'ed but vocals.

Recently we've run into trouble where the vocals were off kilter, guitars too loud (go figure ) etc. I don't know HOW we should be doing our soundchecks, but I'm sure we're not doing them well yet. We've all been around the block once or twice, but none of us knows sound really, and I figure I'll try to learn a bit.

I've suggested we do something like this:
Set up. Drummer plays. Get bass volume up (as heard in the venue, not on stage) to match well with drum level. Add in one guitarist and match. Add in next guitarist and match now all playing together. Bring vocals up individually while playing. Play together and make sure it sounds good.

Does that sound reasonable? Any other hints/tips/resources? We're not really a big enough deal to have a sound man, although maybe we should rent one a time or two and try to learn from him.

[salcott]

Make sure the guitar player isn't using his volume knob/pedal to save some for later.

[Ace Marconi]

Originally Posted by salcott

Make sure the guitar player isn't using his volume knob/pedal to save some for later.

Nice shot!

[Lync]

I go through the same thing gig after gig. Smaller places...half of the time the dinner crowd not only limits a soundcheck, but also setup. Basically an hour to set up the band, PA, tune and line check. Number one tip...lead vocals should always be the loudest. Even if another instrument is weak, you can bring it up as you play, but the vocals are the most important.

I do like the method you use when doing "sound from stage". Get a decent drum sound, bring up the bass to mix (then try to sneak out and listen), guitars/other instruments filling out some higher frequencies and then vocals above.

[fokof]

I do that A LOT with my trio , 3 vox , bass , guitar , perks.

We have a small digital board , we recall the preset then adjust to that specific room. We EQ the kit to a reference track (well known CD) and usually no tweaking is needed
98% of the time the preset is perfect.
We also often use IEM wich are time and trouble savers.

[azureblue]

1- get all musicians on the stage
2- get all musicians to pay attention to the fact that you are doing a sound check. that is, put down you cell phone, quit leaving the stage to get a beer, talk to somebody off stage, suddenly decide this is a good time to change strings,etc.
3- get all musicians to NOT play until it is their turn, and to play ONLY when asked to.
---get all musicians on the stage again..
4- get musicians to play a part in a song for sound check, not just noodle on the latest riff they are working on
5- get them to not argue with you when you ask them to change their volume
---get all musicians on the stage again and quit noodling.
6- get them to understand that it is not good to turn up after sound check, if you are feeding them into the PA
7- get your female singer back on stage, cause she had to take a bathroom break. Which extended into stopping and talking with three other girls on the way back to the stage, making you have to go get her, wherein she gets mad at you for interrupting the "girl talk"
---get all musicians on the stage again..
8- get your vocalists to sing at the level they sing at during a song, to sing a part, not just say "check, mike". Oh yes, and get them to quit thumping on the mike to see if it is on or not.
9- FINALLY do a full band sound check

[Koog]

You can control instrument volume by asking everyone to roll the volume pots on the instruments full up and then adjust from the amps to get the mix in the sound check. The lead guitarist should have a bit of latitude here, but typically can be controlled by using a pedal with settings preset. When the levels on the amps are set, they stay that way for the show. This way no one gets to "cheat" with volume, there are no contests and the mix stays good the whole show. If you're micing through the board, volume can be tweaked in the mix once the settings noted above are reached for additional control.

Something we've found helpful over the years is to roll off the subs and mains and get a good monitor level and mix first. Once that is set and everyone is happy with it, we roll up the volume to the mains and subs to please the house. We can end up with a very full sound inside and have a driving but controlled sound to the audience using this method. it is particularly helpful in small venues, where in order to be motivated and feel the sound is right, it needs to drive, but you simply can't blow the audience out.

Venue owners and managers never complain about our volume. We receive many repeat shows because we use this method.

Good luck.

Koog.

[cableguy]

Originally Posted by salcott

Make sure the guitar player isn't using his volume knob/pedal to save some for later.

Don't they all do this?

Nothing screws up a mix like volume wars between guitarist and/or keys.

[JKos]

geoff_in_nc,
You approach sounds reasonable enough. The battle will be keeping the guitars from turning up (just like everyone above is saying). If you are only micing the vocals then that implies nothing else in the monitor(s), so it's very likely someone will turn up just to get some "more me."

If each member is disciplined enough to not turn up, it will work. That being said, the mix requirements do change as the room fills with people. So a mix and EQ that sounded great during sound check may not be quite perfect during the performance.

It helps to have someone in the audience that you really trust and has a good ear giving you some feedback during the performance.

- John

[ggunn]

Do you have a sound person out front or are you mixing from the stage?

[geoff_in_nc]

Thanks all....
azureblue: I think you nailed it. LOL

Jkos, exactly, nothing in the monitors except vocals... there are constant complaints about "I couldn't hear <other guitar>", "all I could hear was bla bla bla" etc. That discipline thing.... yeah, that's a killer. There's been times when ALL I could hear was the guitarist beside me, and other times when I couldn't hear him at all.

ggunn, so far we've done all our mixing from the stage, but we're trying to change that a little with a non-band member (and really a non-sound guy too) tweaking for us some, but it will likely be one of us that sets up to begin with.

[testing1two]

Get a long cord or a wireless system for your bass and step out front to listen to the mix. You should probably do this during sound check and once per set so you can keep control of the guitar/keyboard war. The other option is to feed the main mix to your monitor so you are hearing the house mix in your wedge (you should go out and listen).

Remember, loud music in small spaces is a recipe for conflict (and hearing loss). You're all fighting to be heard over the drums and bar band music isn't exactly known for sensitive dynamic drumming.

Here's a good rule of thumb for such occasions: any compromise where all parties are equally unhappy is probably fair.