Small PA: Carvin V Yamaha

Low_Ryder · #1 03-27-2012, 05:44 PM

I am interested in comparisons in small PA's, because I'm about to drop $1000 on one. The PA will be pulling triple duty.

1. It needs to be a good vocals/acoustic guitar system. My wife sings and plays, and the Peavey she has now (an older Ecoustic 120) doesn't sound very good, especially on vocals. Plus, it doesn't work for...

2. The PA will be a house system for a small (about 45 person) coffee house. There is live music there, usually of the singer/songwriter variety.

3. We get together with several friends and it gets pretty loud. There's a heavy-handed drummer, plus a loud keyboardist, a surprisingly reserved guitarist

plus me (bass of course), and a trumpet. The Peavey Ecoustic 120 doesn't cut it at all for that!

I have a small mixer. So, here's what I'm pretty sure I need: a small power amp, 2 2-way 12" mains, and 1 2-way 12" monitor.

Carvin can put this together for under (barely) $1000 with a DCM1000 and the PM12's for mains and monitor. I can get quite similar gear from Musicians Friend for about $1100, and it would be Yamaha A12 for mains and monitor, and the P3500S amp. I didn't analyze every spec side by side, but the systems seem quite similar.

The question is, which is better? And please, if you've never used Carvin, don't put them down. I know they are not everyone's favorite brand to bash (can you say BEHRINGER!), but I see it a lot. I've never used their products but the fact that it's a family-run American company gives it a few marks in it's favor right there.

Sorry for the long-winded opening, but I wanted to set the stage for anyone that might be able to share some experience on this.

gotmule? · #2 03-27-2012, 09:43 PM

Have you taken a look at powered speakers? I have a pair of RCF ART 312As that sound excellent and will give you more than enough power for the applications than you mentioned. You can find a pair of them for about $800 (which is a steal IMO) on eBay and I promise you that you won't be disappointed. The setup will be a lot simpler and quicker than with a power amp and passive speakers and because the powered speakers come with an amp specifically made for the speaker as well as built in DSP, it makes the speakers nearly impossible to damage.

For the small acoustic gigs, you can run 1 as a main and 1 as a monitor and it should be more than enough for your application. I have done this numerous times with great results. As long as you have enough outlets (and possibly extension cords) this set up will be perfect for what you are looking for and will leave you with some extra money left over.

Low_Ryder · #3 03-28-2012, 06:38 AM

Well I do appreciate the suggestion. For some reason, I really have a feeling that power amp/passive speakers is the way I want to go. Mostly I think it's the amount of equipment I can get for the same money. Plus it just feels more versatile.

By the way, I checked out those speakers, and they do look pretty sweet!

Low_Ryder · #4 03-28-2012, 01:06 PM

Well, maaayyybe I'm reconsidering the powered speaker option. Do they in general sound much better than a passive speaker?

Rip Topaz · #5 03-28-2012, 01:10 PM

I've got a Carvin PA, and LOVE it. I got the RX1200L-2153 system, with a few addons, and it has NO problem keeping up with a heavy drummer. I'm sure one of the lower powered models might work for you as well.

Nate74 · #6 03-28-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low_Ryder

Well, maaayyybe I'm reconsidering the powered speaker option. Do they in general sound much better than a passive speaker?

Some claim yes because the power amp is perfectly matched to the speakers. But honestly, so long as you stay mindful of your setup, a powered head (or mixer with power amp) with passive speakers can sound every bit as good.

One of my projects recently had a similar decision to make. Sometimes we play at venues where we provide all our own PA, at one venue there are powered house speakers but no monitors or mixer, and at yet another there are powered mains but a passive monitor and their mixer and little amp suck.

We went with the Carvin RX1200L. It's 12 channels and has 4 300watt amps. So you can send 600watts to the mains and then 300watts to each monitor mix 1 and 2. You can also send line level signals for main L&R and monitor mixes 1 and 2. Or any combination.

For instance: This weekend we're playing the place with powered mains, no monitor and no mixer. We'll send a stereo line level signal to the house mains, and 300watts into a passive monitor. Next weekend we're doing an outdoor private party so we'll take our Yamaha Club 15's for the mains and a pair of passive monitors.

The 1200 watts this thing has seems to be more than enough and the easy of moving just one box is pretty cool too. Not to mention it's small and light and doesn't take up much floor space; a nice feature in your smaller dive bar type gigs.

Just my 2 cents, ymmv.

Low_Ryder · #7 03-29-2012, 03:08 PM

can anyone compare the carvin PM12 speakers to the Yamaha A12 speakers?

For me, these are the products that are comparable in price that are also at the very maximum of my budget.

Low_Ryder · #8 03-29-2012, 03:51 PM

Then again, on the powered front, these seem to be the contenders:

Mackie Thump Series TH-12A
American Audio XSP-12A
Gemini RS-412
...and a few others on musician's friend.

And the super cheap thing I just saw:

Kustom KPC10P, 10" driver, 50W of power...

I don't know...

Low_Ryder · #9 03-29-2012, 07:22 PM

There's also the, um, well, Behringer EUROLIVE B212D. It's about $250 a speaker. That's hard to beat.

gotmule? · #10 03-29-2012, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low_Ryder

Then again, on the powered front, these seem to be the contenders:

Mackie Thump Series TH-12A
American Audio XSP-12A
Gemini RS-412
...and a few others on musician's friend.

And the super cheap thing I just saw:

Kustom KPC10P, 10" driver, 50W of power...

I don't know...

I would definitely stay away from Gemini. I have not heard the American Audio speakers before, but the Mackie Thumps are a pretty good sounding speaker for their price. For around the same price, take a look at the Alto Truesonic series. While I have not heard them myself, I have seen a lot of great reviews on them and seem to hold up better than Behringers. As a side note, I have an Alto SXM112A coming in in a few days, so I can give you a review on that if you'd like and let you know how it sounds.

seanm · #11 03-29-2012, 11:03 PM

I can't compare the Carvin and Yamaha cabs, but I do have a Carvin and a Yamaha mixer.

I bought the Carvin to replace the Yamaha. The Carvin has way more features and a lot more power (which honestly, I don't need). Because of the features, I am using the Carvin live.

The Carvin is also way cheaper. It cost almost the same new as the Yamaha did used.

But I can't let go of the Yamaha. The Carvin feels cheap compared to the Yamaha and I am worried how it will hold up. This is, of course, IMHO. YMMV, dealer may sell for less.

4Mal · #12 03-29-2012, 11:14 PM

Double your budget and you can get the job done. Muche less than that and too many compromises in sound quality IMO.

MysticMichael · #13 03-29-2012, 11:15 PM

You won't find me dissing Carvin, that's for sure...

While Carvin bass guitars have been coming on strong in recent years - and Carvin guitars have been considered top drawer for at least 25 years now from guitarists in the know - the fact is that Carvin was making a name for itself in the pro audio world long before any of their musical instruments started hitting the collective radar screen.

Definitely worth consideration...

MM

modulusman · #14 03-30-2012, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low_Ryder

Well, maaayyybe I'm reconsidering the powered speaker option. Do they in general sound much better than a passive speaker?

Yes they do because they have DSP built in. Many are bi-amped which is also a plus. All the powered speakers you listed are junk. If you can't afford to spend the money and buy something worth owning then it is time for a new hobby.

oerk · #15 03-30-2012, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modulusman

Yes they do because they have DSP built in. Many are bi-amped which is also a plus. All the powered speakers you listed are junk. If you can't afford to spend the money and buy something worth owning then it is time for a new hobby.

While it is nice to have professional grade equipment, it's not always possible for all of us.

Going by that logic, I'd have to take all of my equipment to the junkyard. Because I'm too poor to afford what's decent gear by your definition, I'd have to give up music entirely.

How about explaining why the listed speakers are junk, and giving examples of better choices, instead of talking down to people?

Sorry, but I get riled up by that sort of statement...

modulusman · #16 03-30-2012, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oerk

While it is nice to have professional grade equipment, it's not always possible for all of us.

Going by that logic, I'd have to take all of my equipment to the junkyard. Because I'm too poor to afford what's decent gear by your definition, I'd have to give up music entirely.

How about explaining why the listed speakers are junk, and giving examples of better choices, instead of talking down to people?

Sorry, but I get riled up by that sort of statement...

Well since the OP has basses that cost over 2 grand each it doesn't sound like he is living in a poor house. Typical dumb musician thinking. Instead of spending money on PA which is more important to your bands sound buy expensive personel gear instead. Gemini and American audio are geared to idiot DJs that don't know any better. The mackie dump will not be loud enough. He needs to figure on spending a minumum of around double his budget to get anything worth owning.

scowboy · #17 03-30-2012, 08:07 AM

Got Opinions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by modulusman

Well since the OP has basses that cost over 2 grand each it doesn't sound like he is living in a poor house. Typical dumb musician thinking. Instead of spending money on PA which is more important to your bands sound buy expensive personel gear instead. Gemini and American audio are geared to idiot DJs that don't know any better. The mackie dump will not be loud enough. He needs to figure on spending a minumum of around double his budget to get anything worth owning.

Low_Ryder · #18 03-30-2012, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modulusman

Well since the OP has basses that cost over 2 grand each it doesn't sound like he is living in a poor house. Typical dumb musician thinking. Instead of spending money on PA which is more important to your bands sound buy expensive personel gear instead. Gemini and American audio are geared to idiot DJs that don't know any better. The mackie dump will not be loud enough. He needs to figure on spending a minumum of around double his budget to get anything worth owning.

I am beginning to think ANY of your opinions are... unhelpful. Your elitist, derogatory attitude aside, you don't seem to know basses either. The Yamaha Attitude Standard is the low grade model, MSRP was around $800 new but I payed $350 for it used, 17 years ago. I know, it's "junk." The Warwick FNA was a different story. After lots of saving, 12 years ago I payed $1050 for it. New. No Sale. MSPR: $1499. So the store did a decent markdown from MSRP.

MuzikMan · #19 03-30-2012, 08:36 AM

I would go for a couple of RCA ART powered speakers or the EV LiveX series. Two higher quality cabs > three lesser quality cabs in your situation.

code911 · #20 03-30-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low_Ryder

There's also the, um, well, Behringer EUROLIVE B212D. It's about $250 a speaker. That's hard to beat.

I've seen them on ebay new for $209 also. I bought 2 of the b215d which double as powered monitors and/or mains. I preferred the 15" because of we put everything thru the board including a heavy handed drummer, keys and bass.

I'm thinking of getting a couple of the b121d just to use as a pole mounted monitor too