So it's not a problem of me not cutting through, its my guitarist! help?

hyp.spec · #1 11-13-2010, 07:52 AM

So we played a gig last night in this little dive bar, and through the whole show trying to make out the guitar was rather interesting....

We played without PA support (which is something we normally don't), and I kept hearing comments from the crowd about the guitar getting lost.

Fairly hard hitting drummer + vocals + me == cant hear the guitar? in a metal band?

For what its worth, i play a LMIII w/ an Avatar 212 and a VT Bass Pedal. My guitar player has a Line6 SpiderIII 150w head w/ a 412 cab with some effects and a sonic maximizer.

What can we do to make his sound cut through better?

Thanks

nealw · #2 11-13-2010, 07:54 AM

Turn up the mids.

plangentmusic · #3 11-13-2010, 07:57 AM

Turn off the maximizer. It makes it sound clearer alone but it gets lost in a blend since it removes some of the dirty mids.

Jazz Ad · #4 11-13-2010, 07:57 AM

Open garbage can, throw sonic maximizer away, resume playing with hearable guitarist.

plangentmusic · #5 11-13-2010, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

Open garbage can, throw sonic maximizer away, resume playing with hearable guitarist.

Ha! Yeah, they're not good on guitars or basses, especially live, but I find they're useful when mastering recordings.

hyp.spec · #6 11-13-2010, 08:20 AM

That'll be interesting... I like the sound recorded and at practice... but I have a feeling my guitar player isn't going to like me suggesting to turn off the maximizer

>_<

TimmyP · #7 11-13-2010, 10:39 AM

A friend and I were talking about this the other day. A customer of his had a big rack rig. Sounded fantastic - by itself. Playing with the band, it was either inaudible, or when cranked up it sounded like a bag of angry bees.

Crank up the midrange, turn the presence to minimum, and use just enough treble to give it some articulation (sometimes minimum is the correct setting).

Gearhead17 · #8 11-13-2010, 10:52 AM

I agree with everything said so far. The Sonic Maximizer is much more useful in a recording situation, otherwise, the extra clarity it provides is beyond useless in a live situation.

I am not quite sure how you were heard in a metal band with only a 212, but maybe you know how to use your midrange! It could be a small room we are talking about and since your guitar player is a little out of the mix, well, it's a win-win for you!

plangentmusic · #9 11-13-2010, 10:57 AM

Maximizers enhance the overtone series making whatever it's enhancing sound more vibrant. But that doesn't cut. In fact, it gets sucked up within the other frequencies.

They also remove noise and a part of any musical sound -- especially distorted guitar, is quite frankly, noise.

It sounds lie a paradox but it is what it is.

Though I have to say, adding a bit to a finished recording gives it a nice clear "lift."

hyp.spec · #10 11-13-2010, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

I agree with everything said so far. The Sonic Maximizer is much more useful in a recording situation, otherwise, the extra clarity it provides is beyond useless in a live situation.

I am not quite sure how you were heard in a metal band with only a 212, but maybe you know how to use your midrange! It could be a small room we are talking about and since your guitar player is a little out of the mix, well, it's a win-win for you!

Oh that I do, that I do....

I put a large emphasis on mids (especially on the VT Bass Pedal (character/mid knobs), which does an awesome job cutting (overpowering) through the band.

Deep bass is fine and dandy, but I want to be heard

-------

However, I'm going to suggest the recommendations you guys have given me... we'll see how it sounds!

CapnSev · #11 11-13-2010, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nealw

Turn up the mids.

I'll put a healthy bet down that your guitarist has a mid scoop complex.

I did a 90s grunge cover band for a while, and our guitarist insisted on scooping the mids because he "liked the tone". He could max out his Marshall, and I would still drown him out going flat into my LMII with a 115.

mboogiemanusa · #12 11-13-2010, 01:05 PM

If you don't have a soundman - I would recommend putting a mic (Shure SM57) on the guitar speaker and running a little guitar through the mains. Most guitarists lose a little volume during the leads. I am not talking about having a dominate guitar in the main mix ......just enough to fill in some guitar across the venue. We mic the lead guitar on every gig just to spread out the guitar sound across the room so folks are not complaining about can't hear the guitar. Doesn't have to be blasting in the mix but the extra speakers will bring the guitar up front where you want it.

DavidE · #13 11-13-2010, 06:23 PM

Dump this: "Line6 SpiderIII 150w head w/ a 412 cab with some effects"

I'm a guitar player first and have a ton of amps and many years of experience. The Spider III is mediocre at best and most people who use them use too much gain, not enough mids and dial in buzz tones.

If he wants to use that amp, he needs to dial in his tone at gig volume and with the band. Modeling amps are notorious for sounding fine dialed in at home and then getting lost on stage in a band mix.

hyp.spec · #14 11-13-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidE

Dump this: "Line6 SpiderIII 150w head w/ a 412 cab with some effects"

I'm a guitar player first and have a ton of amps and many years of experience. The Spider III is mediocre at best and most people who use them use too much gain, not enough mids and dial in buzz tones.

If he wants to use that amp, he needs to dial in his tone at gig volume and with the band. Modeling amps are notorious for sounding fine dialed in at home and then getting lost on stage in a band mix.

Sounds fine in the basement, and I have seen his EQ and it runs mostly flat (although the maximizer changes it). Either way, he nabbed the Line6 head/cab for $350 off craigslist... damn good deal!

We have a gig tomorrow and NO ONE is coming... be a good opportunity to convince him to turn the maximizer off

smeet · #15 11-13-2010, 08:18 PM

Most guitarists really should have an all-tube amp. Nothing makes the attack and cut like tubes. Tubes are nice for bass, but a must-have for guitar. This is for tonal quality, but also the dynamic range makes the attack that much more audible.

The spider does a convincing simulation of tubes, but the "feel", which includes that palpable punch-through-concrete feel of a marshall or a big Fender, just isn't there.