Some advice-- How to get the tone I want live

Ezmar · #1 07-26-2010, 08:41 AM

I'm playing at an event pretty soon where around 10 bands are playing, and everyone is using the same equipment, the same amps and stuff, except for the guitar. It's not a serious venue, and it's actually more like a camp. Anyway, most people will be playing with a pretty smooth bass sound, not really focusing on anything beyond just the fundamental. Now, if I want to get a brighter tone, and I can't really mess with the EQ on the Speaker, I'm thinking of using the EQ on my guitar pedal. (I'm primarily a guitarist.) Now, I guess my question is, How much difference does the size of the speaker make when interacting with an EQ? Because since it's made for guitar, I'll want to figure out how it responds to my bass sound beforehand, so can I do that on a smaller 15w amp, and expect it to react the same way in a live setting, or will I have to figure it out at sound check?

Sorry if this question is confusing and a little bit naive.

jtc_hunter · #2 07-26-2010, 09:02 AM

All you can really do with that tiny setup is turn the lows down a bit and turn up the mids and treble a tad. That will let you cut thru better than a standard "smooth' bass setting.

John Wentzien · #3 07-26-2010, 09:06 AM

Go "DI" to the P.A.

Ezmar · #4 07-26-2010, 12:21 PM

Well, I know I'm probably using a big stack, and that it's going to get more bass than I'm going to probably want. I'm just looking to see if I can know how the EQ is going to react on the larger amp if I need it to by testing it on the smaller one. Basically I'm wondering if I could use an EQ to try to get more highs out of the huge rig, since it's going to have more lows. It might not even be a problem, but I want to know if there's a way I can know how the EQ will change it so I don't eat up all my sound check time getting my bass tone perfect. If the sound of the amp is really low heavy, as large bass amps tend to be, Would I want to Cut the lows, boost the mids and highs, or both, if I felt I needed that extra push? Again, it probably won't be that much of a problem, but I want to be prepared.

JimmyM · #5 07-26-2010, 02:01 PM

worry about it when you get there, but with 10 bands on the bill, don't get too hung up on perfection. it's just not going to be perfect but hopefully it'll sound good. and in situations where you're not sure what to do, trust your soundman.

MNAirHead · #6 07-26-2010, 08:26 PM

This will sound nutty..

As a guitarist turned bassist.. the touch is different.. chances are you're not finessing the desired sound with your hands.

Ezmar · #7 07-26-2010, 10:16 PM

It's not really a problem of Not getting the right tone, it's more I want to know if I can still get the right tone even with a different setup than what I'm practicing with. I'm sure it will be fine.

tobie · #8 07-26-2010, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

worry about it when you get there

Exactly what I was going to suggest. We can take 10 guesses how it will or might sound - and still be wrong. All amps are different and might react differently on a specific EQ setting. The more important issue I guess, is that it's a bass amp (closed at the back) and not a guitar amp.

MNAirHead · #9 07-27-2010, 01:28 AM

OPINION...

Ezmar..

I'll be the first to help you "get over tone".. as a guitarist, your tone does matter --- for a bassist, we're more a foundation/rhythem role -- the bass spectrum isn't as noticable as guitar, vocals, etc. Go on Youtube and watch some of the known greats -- they commonly play either super high end botiquish gear OR anything thrown at them. IN live settings, one of the current trends is to boost the level and cut the tone to have it more of a solid footing vs "cutting through the mix"

The guys you see that can step up and have great tone with whatever they're plugged into commonly will be playing active basses and/or mastered hand placement and touch.. makes a huge difference between the pickup and the neck... My personal favorite for doing this is Leland Sklar - his famed bass is a pile of junk parts.. he can cop the tone also from some botique gear.. same tone - same guy - bigger budget.

In reality, Bass guys get bored and banter which cabinet makes a 30hz sound better.. in reality much of this is distracting in a complete band spectrum mix. When playing live you will "normally" be Direct to the board -- you then are at mercy of the sound tech, room/area and PA I'd then encourage you to just "groove" vs "my tone"

Please don't beoffended, I'm trying to refocus you on the bass being closer to drums than a melody instrument -- from the intial question, I'd encourage you to NOT worry about it (like some of the smarter folks have pointed out) .. get acclimated to playing bass and get your "touch" down.. THEN focus on your note placement & groove.. the tone then kind of snaps into place later... you'll then get bored and debate which distortion box sounds better (yes for bass)

As a recent convert, just about anything dialed into a metronome is better than good tone.

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SPENDING MONEY (when playing live) When you have thousands to spend, we're here to help you spend it - if you must I'd be considering keeping an eye out for quality DI (they don't have to cost more than $100) this will save you when the sound guy has 1/2 broken junk... reading forums you'll receive about 100 opinions on how the same sound is derrived - you'll also get replies suggesting to never let a sound guy bring out a DI.

Much of your other true sound is having a bass tech (not guitar tech) set up your gear.. they can dial in string selection, help with touch and intonation etc. I find that guitars are either good or bad -- most basses are NOT well setup - especially if they're used or come from a red logo store..

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Without knowing exactly what gear you're playing the replies you're receiving aren't credible... they're just opinions.

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I admire your coming over to the bottom side, assuming you're a great guitarist - it may take some time to rethink the music production.

We're here to help you - sorry to be long winded

JimmyM · #10 07-27-2010, 08:02 AM

timmy, with all due respect, the gear doesn't matter. you plug in, you turn knobs till it sounds good to you, end of story. even works with a crate power block

Ezmar · #11 07-27-2010, 09:19 AM

Yeah, I kind of feel like people took the "problem" too seriously. I'm actually not worrying about it too much, I've had bad experiences with live venues sound-wise, and have never recorded anything, and I guess I take too much of a studio approach to playing live, in terms of getting the right sound. I do tend to take a guitar approach to playing bass, which comes from being the biggest Rush fan in my part of the state (I'm pretty sure

). And my bass is really crappily set up, too. I got it last Christmas, a Squier Jazz. The neck needs adjusting, and so does the bridge, something terrible, so I think that also leads me to worry about my tone in that the harmonics are all screwed up, and it doesn't sound in tune, so I worry that if I don't have the right frequencies, it will sound in tune to me, but not to everyone else. Once I pick up the new strings I ordered, I'm going to have my brother look at it; he's been dabbling in being a luthier, so I trust him to do an adequate job.

And I'm not actually a "guitarist turned bassist", I'm just working on both, and keys and drums, since I'm actually first and foremost a singer. My problem is that I can't find anybody in my area that plays the same kind of music as I do, so I have to try and be self sufficient. I'm better at guitar than bass, but I'm better than more bassists than guitarists. That said, I have a tendency to be too fancy on the bass, but I'm working on that.

Thanks for everything, guys!

MNAirHead · #12 07-27-2010, 10:02 AM

The replies are not busting on your quest to sound your best.. it's the support of the live guys not to start spending tons of gears on a tone that has not been articulated to an unknown PA or sound guy.

Without more details we have to start with the basics.. setup, feel, timing etc.

MNAirHead · #13 07-27-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

timmy, with all due respect, the gear doesn't matter. you plug in, you turn knobs till it sounds good to you, end of story. even works with a crate power block

Of if the kids knew how funny your reply actually is...

Hoping all is well in FLA

varunkapahi · #14 07-27-2010, 10:13 AM

if you are going direct to pa you could get a preamp which gives you the sound you want

FunkMetalBass · #15 07-27-2010, 10:19 AM

I can almost guarantee the mids will be scooped by time you get there. Turn down the bass a hair, turn down the treble, and boost the mids. Then adjust to taste.

I don't know what tone you're after, but that's my usual ritual.

tobie · #16 07-27-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezmar

I worry that if I don't have the right frequencies, it will sound in tune to me, but not to everyone else.

I wouldn't worry about that too much. 99.9999% of the time you can trust your ears - if you're not over-complicating it. You'll never please everyone anyway, so go with what sounds good to you. The soundman has to worry about what sounds good to the audience.

JimmyM · #17 07-27-2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Of if the kids knew how funny your reply actually is...

Hoping all is well in FLA

i used the power block at my gig yesterday, too! have to fly very early today so i didn't want to fool with a tube amp when i'm trying to haul ass quickly. i'm loving that little amp, bro. can't even hear that slight distortion, and your cord is holding up very well (been using it when i use it). thanks very much!

hope all is well with you too.