Sound delay and implications for pocket groove?

[bassclique]

Hello,

This is kind of hard to explain, so i'll put it like this:

1. When i play along to songs directly through my headphones (using a sound card), i notice i keep the beat reasonably well.

2. However, when i plug into an amp and play along out loud, it feels like i am lagging slightly off the beat. Normally, laptop and bass are both plugged directly into amp.

Question: I'm wondering if i'm waiting to 'hear' where i should be playing, before i play it, hence the lag?

Question: I'm also wondering if the slight delay has anything to do with the time the signal takes to travel from my fingers, through the cable and then to the amp?

I guess i'm wondering why i feel like i 'lag' when i play out loud, but sound a bit 'tighter' when i play through headphones?

If either of my hypotheses are correct, what implications does this have for playing live on stage? For instance, do you need to play slightly ahead of time to factor in for delay? Do you need to anticipate the drummer, without actually waiting for him to hit the beat before you do?

Please note, i haven't, at any stage, played on stage.

[Never_grew_up]

Are you saying that laptop & bass are plugged into the amp & headphones are being fed from the amp, or is it a different setup? Sounds like you may be experiencing some sort of A/D or D/A latency, especially if your headphones are plugged directly into your laptop but your bass is plugged into an amp.

[devilock76]

You are feeling the converse of what logic would suggest is happening from latency. Unless the computer's latency from playing with the headphones plugged in has caused you to 'expect' the latency but then you would be ahead of the beat when plugged into the amp. Does the amp do anything to the aux input signal that could cause latency? I am kind of drawing a blank here.

Ken

[Vanceman]

I think you're waiting to hear where you are supposed to be. With headphones, the volume is louder, so you play along more natuarally.

When I practice with the drum machine, I feel like I need to anticipate a little. When done right, I don't hear the beat because I'm right on top of it. We did some demo recording with the band, and I would play these sections over and over again until the BL was satisfied, and each time the good one was the one that I concentrated on getting right on top.

[bassclique]

Originally Posted by Vanceman

I think you're waiting to hear where you are supposed to be. With headphones, the volume is louder, so you play along more natuarally.

When I practice with the drum machine, I feel like I need to anticipate a little. When done right, I don't hear the beat because I'm right on top of it. We did some demo recording with the band, and I would play these sections over and over again until the BL was satisfied, and each time the good one was the one that I concentrated on getting right on top.

I think that is what it is... Thank you!

Just to confirm:

- When i play with headphones plugged in to sound card, yes, i guess i'd hear the beat straight way.

- When i play with mp3 / laptop and bass guitar plugged into amp (and subsequently hearing all sound come out of amp), then maybe i am waiting to hear the beat come out of the speaker before i play the note. Interesting information! Makes me think i've got to play out loud more often.

[gleventhal]

Two things... Perhaps the tone you are using in your bass amp is very bassy, perhaps even a bit muddy, and thus, it takes a little longer to push the air, so it feels like it is less tight, or less on top of the beat. I know that I have perceived things like this when playing through amps vs playing direct in some scenarios.

Now, as far as waiting to hear where the beat is.. I have been studying groove only for the last year (after playing for 20 years) and I can tell you that trying to listen to the other instruments and play exactly when they play is a bad groove habit. You should listen to the whole pulse and imagine where the bass should be sitting inside of the groove, and then play it there. That is how you develop feel in my opinion. Sometimes where you hear the beats landing, is not exactly where you should be playing, because some instruments play slightly differently in the groove from each other. I hope that makes some sense.

[TimmyP]

I think gleventhal makes perfect sense. Sort of like when double tracking yourself - if you can hear yourself, you aren't matched up.

[ddnidd1]

Another thing to consider is that when you play along to a song that already has a bass line playing, you can be a bit off and its not so noticeable.

When you play live the inconsistencies become more apparent.