Soundcheck with Choir Order?

[Fretless1!]

I will try to make this as terse as possible. Problems with volunteer soundstaff and musician volume at church. Soundguy is not particulary knowledgeable or open to suggestions. Musicians are probably, I know one is, too loud (Yes, it is the guitarist). I am getting ready to try and help sort some of this out.

The question is soundcheck order. I know, in clubs and rock, we always checked drums, bass, guitar, then vocals. Since there is a problem with musician volume, wouldn't it make more sense to check the choir first followed by drums, guitar, then bass? That way you set the vocal limit first.

Nobody besides me has a clue about micing techniques or eq or nothing. I'm not that good but Geeez... this is bad. Everybody's frustrated.

Here are the instruments: choir, bass, electric drum kit, electric guitar, acoustic guitar, piano, 2 violins, trumpet. Should we do all the soft instruments first?

I should mention that, currently, only the piano and violins are miced. Piano is fine. Electric drums and acoustic guitar are being played through a small PA onstage. Violins are sort of miced. Some kind of condensor mic on a stand about 3 ft away from them. I know, it's crazy.

Any suggestions on placement of players would help. I'll take whatever you can give me.

We have 3 monitor mixes... sometimes. Don't ask.

Any and all help will be appreciated. Thanks!

[Jimbob Jones]

IME choir call should be at least 10 minutes before band call, so that the PA guy can get some idea of what to do with the choir before the band start playing. (although the choir mix does need to take the mic overspill from the band into account)

You simply need to tell the guitarist 'you're too loud, your amp is drowning out the choir.' If he gets annoyed it's his problem: you have a genuine reason for him to turn down. Remember to reassure him that he will still be heard in the house.

Make sure YOU'RE not too loud, if you can turn your amp down a bit without hurting anything, then do.

That violin mic'ing sounds like something you might do in a studio; not so great on stage. Try putting the stand behind the players, with the mic high up, arching over their heads (with the capsule pretty much pointing straight at the instrument).

As for musician positioning, try to get the violins (and somewhat the choir, but mainly the violins) as far away from the drum kit and amp as possible. Try grouping the amps around the kit facing outwards; depending on the room, how loud the drummer is, whether you have a drum screen or not and a whole load of other factors, this may work or not. I've had reasonable success with amps mic'd up right next to a kit, but other times it's just been awful...worth an experiment though IMO.

Hope my rambling helps!

[TimmyP]

Check the instruments (gain structure, EQ, etc.). Then pull the faders all the way down. Check the choir acapella. Then have the band play, and make whomever is too loud turn down. Then add some choir and tweak as needed if and only if it makes the choir sound better. Then add a little of any instrument that needs help (which may include thinning out the EQ on an instrument so you add only definition, not mud).

[Fretless1!]

Thanks, guys! Much help! I'll let y'all know how it goes...