Speaker Snake?

MTMTEX · #1 01-31-2009, 09:30 AM

I have a slant rack case with a 16 channel mixer, a power amp for the mains and one for the monitors. Also a couple of efx and an eq. This set up worked well sitting next to me on stage so I could make adjustments while we played. Now I have several bands asking me to run their sound (using my stuff) and I want to get out in front of the mains. I have a 16/4 snake so thats covered but any ideas on what I can do with the speaker cables? I really would rather not have to pull the power amps when I am not using them on stage, and I kind of like having everything right there in front of me so I can monitor everything. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks.

anderbass · #2 01-31-2009, 10:12 AM

Yeah, I understand your situation. While someone (or you) might manufacture a speaker snake, the long wire runs would require over sized wiring and this would end up being very expensive. (buying or building extra long heavy-gauge speaker cables would be very expensive too)

Sounds like this might be a very good time for you to simply get your poweramps mounted in their own rack placed somewhere on or near the stage/mains/monitors and just use your snakes 4 sends to drive them in the conventional manor.

Two racks would also have the benefit of making for a much easier load-in/out and when your running sound for your own band, you could just stack both racks up together if desired.

MTMTEX · #3 01-31-2009, 10:36 AM

I am thinking about taking 4 fifty footers and running them along side my 16/4 snake, connecting them to a junction block (?) then using 10 or 20 footers to the mains and monitors. Is there such a thing? Would I have to big a loss in signal? I am about 100% sure you are correct in what I have to do about using 2 cases but I really am trying to avoid that if at all possible.

Vinny D · #4 01-31-2009, 11:02 AM

Waaaaaaayyyyyy to long for speaker cables.

Bite the bullet and pull the amps out and put them in there own rack......you really will be better off.
If your gain staging is done properly you should never need to look at your amps too see if they are clipping, all you should need to look at is the output meters on your mixer.

I either mix from stage while playing or, like you soon will be, run sound for other bands. I seperated my system into lightweight SKB rack cases so I can move everything easily by myself.
Make up a few small component snakes and the system wires up pretty easily.

I have a 12-space rack for my FOH that my AH MixWiz in a pop up case sits right on top of.
(1) 6-space rack with a PLX3002 and a DBX dual 31 eq for 2-monitor mixes
(1) 6-space rack with a crossover and PLX3402 for highs and a RMX4050HD for subs.

MTMTEX · #5 01-31-2009, 11:34 AM

I hate it that you guys are right and I knew the answer to my question before I posted. I dont want to do it right, I want to do it my way!

Sheepishly logs off...goes to CL to find rack for power amps.....

modulusman · #6 01-31-2009, 04:10 PM

vinny, Really like the EQ curves on your monitor Set-up.

GregShadoan · #7 01-31-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modulusman

vinny, Really like the EQ curves on your monitor Set-up.

LOL, well, we cant have monitors interfering with the bass now can we?

anderbass · #8 01-31-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTMTEX

I am thinking about taking 4 fifty footers and running them along side my 16/4 snake, connecting them to a junction block (?) then using 10 or 20 footers to the mains and monitors. Is there such a thing? Would I have to big a loss in signal? I am about 100% sure you are correct in what I have to do about using 2 cases but I really am trying to avoid that if at all possible.

I dont know how powerfull your poweramps are, but I'd think you'd probably want 10 gauge or larger wire size for those 50 footers, and thats going to be very expensive. You could build a splitter box pretty easy or better yet, just simply install high quality female jacks at 1 end.

You might be able to snoop around and score a deal on a big roll of surplus industrial type 10 gauge extention cord type cabling at an auction or something. (sometimes this cabling has 3, 5 or maybe even 8 individual color coded 10 gauge wires inside...) But with the price of copper, even if you find a smoking deal its probably not going to be very cheap either.

On the other hand, I've seen all kinds of nice used rack cases selling at very low prices lately... including 4-space slant top mixer cases. (I just bought an old Genz Benz case like this for $30)

agedhorse · #9 01-31-2009, 10:38 PM

If you are driving 50 feet into an 8 ohm load, 14 gauge would be just fine for any reasonable power level. At 4 ohms or even 2 ohms, 12 gauge might be better. For 100 feet at 8 ohms, 12 gauge would be a good choice, 4 or 2 ohms at high power would probably be better off at 10 gauge.

For those who may be doubters, these distances are not at all uncommon in touring arena and stadium rigs, where the speakers are flown and the amp racks live on the deck. An arena rig with a trim height of 50 feet off the deck would typically use a 12 gauge multicable with a length of between 75 and 100 feet.

The same thing applies to stage monitors mixed from side of stage on large stages. With cable routing, it's not uncommon to find 50-100 feet of cabling between the amp racks and the wedges or side fills. My rig's biamped monitor mults are 75', and are 13 gauge (metric equiv). They work just fine, 4 biamped mixes in a single, relatively large 8 pair x 13 gauge cable.

JustDavid · #10 02-01-2009, 08:35 AM

Amp rack.

Vinny D · #11 02-01-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modulusman

vinny, Really like the EQ curves on your monitor Set-up.

?
What exactly do you not like with them, they are for monitors.
Considering they are mostly vocals there is not a whole lot of need for any un-needed bass frequency's that will create low end rumble on the stage.
By the way, you mix with your ears not your eye's.

modulusman · #12 02-01-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny D

?
What exactly do you not like with them, they are for monitors.
Considering they are mostly vocals there is not a whole lot of need for any un-needed bass frequency's that will create low end rumble on the stage.
By the way, you mix with your ears not your eye's.

True, I guess if it sounds good that is what matters. It is kind of hard to tell from the pictures but it looks like you have alot of frequencies cut. You will have to make up that gain somewhere else in the signal chain IMO.

JustDavid · #13 02-01-2009, 02:43 PM

That IS lots of cuts, & better to average around 0 dB, true.

But gotta disagree that monitors should sound good. Monitors should let people know what they are doing; that's their job. Sounding good is secondary. Nice to do for folk if there's time, but "sounding good" is not their main job.

agedhorse · #14 02-01-2009, 08:14 PM

In the professional realm, monitors should sound good, very good if you have chosen to make this your profession.

Vinny D · #15 02-01-2009, 09:25 PM

Considering I am booked through December 09 with my sound gig I am guessing my client is more then satisfied with how there monitors sound regardless of what the EQ looks like.

Besides, isn't this topic about speaker cable length

Bassistman · #16 03-30-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agedhorse

If you are driving 50 feet into an 8 ohm load, 14 gauge would be just fine for any reasonable power level. At 4 ohms or even 2 ohms, 12 gauge might be better. For 100 feet at 8 ohms, 12 gauge would be a good choice, 4 or 2 ohms at high power would probably be better off at 10 gauge.

For those who may be doubters, these distances are not at all uncommon in touring arena and stadium rigs, where the speakers are flown and the amp racks live on the deck. An arena rig with a trim height of 50 feet off the deck would typically use a 12 gauge multicable with a length of between 75 and 100 feet.

The same thing applies to stage monitors mixed from side of stage on large stages. With cable routing, it's not uncommon to find 50-100 feet of cabling between the amp racks and the wedges or side fills. My rig's biamped monitor mults are 75', and are 13 gauge (metric equiv). They work just fine, 4 biamped mixes in a single, relatively large 8 pair x 13 gauge cable.

Would it be safe to say that any 2 conductor cable under say 30' at 4 ohms could be 16,14, or 12 guage for a sufficiant supply? I had a 122' length 12 guage 2 conductor speakon to 1/4 cable (do not know why I had this long of a cable...but) and decided to cut it up into 3 30' speakon to speakons and 2 10' speakon to speakons and 2 6' speakon to speakons for the back of my 1,200 watt bass rig (600 per side) which I know is major overkill, but every time I plug in my rig I feel pretty secure about it. Voltage drop starts at 30' @ 4 ohms @ say 1,000 or 1,200 watts of output, am I close? My monitors are all 4 ohm and all 25' 14 or 12 g speakons (no 1/4 ends), as well as my main runs with around 5,000 watts between 3 stereo amp runs. I was told that at higher wattages 1/4 jacks are only able to transfer 1/3 that of a speakon continuosly? So I changed all my 1/4s out to neutric speakons. I believe there is a diff for sure on my fader headroom and (FOH/MON) clarity from before.
Any thoughts?