stage volume too loud for band dynmaics?

[hgregs]

we have a fairly large rock band - 2 drummers, bass, 2 guitars, keys, and up to 7 people singing. our goal at practice is to manage band dynamics and to be able to play w/ dynamics. at the gigs (last gig especially) the drummers were wailing. to their defense, only their kicks were mic'd and the recording from the from the front of the stage doesn't indicate they were playing too loud. but on stage it had the feeling of playing over the top.

i have 2 questions:

1) should i as a bass player (and the band in general) be able to play with soft-touch dynamics in a situation like that (i think of trying to play with the dynamics of a country-band - but on stage it feels like a hard rock band). or does everyone have to play controlled to get there.

2) given that the FOH sound wasn't drum-dominant (despite their pounding) - do we need to be fully mic'd and drive everything through a FOH-system to get the dynamics we crave?

[Stumbo]

7 vocals and 7 instruments....that'll move a lot of air.

IME, stage volume is under the control of the drummer. Why are they wailing? Can't hear themselves? Maybe a better monitor system is needed.

Especially if you have two wailing drummers. IMO, I'd start there. At rehearsal, have them play very softly for an entire song and bring in each instrument one at a time to make sure each one can be heard.

Slotting all the instruments at different freq. ranges, tones and playing full chords, partial chords, especially the keyboard needs to be "studied" instrument by instrument so that the FOH mix will sound balanced. Maybe you have too many chord instruments playing on top of each other along with too many vocalists.

As far as 7 vocalists, seems like overkill to me unless you have the rest of the band under control and each vocalist add something unique to the tune. Possibly use lest vocalists per song? Or maybe if you had only one of each instrument and only 3-4 vocalist singer per song, your band would be easier to manage sound/stage/gig wise and you might actually sound better.

Recording/studying your rehearsals may lead you in the right direction.

Here are a few links to check out:
Frequency ranges of band instruments
Bass string notes,frequencies and harmonics chart
EQ primer (all instruments)
FOH vs. on-stage sound

[hgregs]

thanks for the reply -

the 7 vocalists aren't all singing at once (i should have clarified). we have usually one (of 3) lead vocals and maybe 3 backing vocals at a time. the band is looking at the rhythm section as the source of the problems.

drummers wailing - more their idea of fun (i.e., they're not playing that way for volume - volume is more the result).

and in the recordings - the drummers at not the loudest (admittedly everyone is likely turning up to compensate).

[dug dog]

My drummer tells me he "can't get into it" if he isn't pounding. He says he gets bored.

[DWBass]

Buy your drummers some Hot Rods and tell them to 'wail' away! One wailing drummer is one thing but 2?

[steve_rolfeca]

Acoustic drums are already the loudest instrument on stage, with the most potential for causing level problems. Doubling up just increases the potential for volume wars, so in that situation, both drummers need a considerable amount of self-restraint.

Sounds like (at least on that particular gig) the drummers forgot why they're there...

[Bob C]

Playing loud IS fun, and noone likes to be told/asked to turn down. BUT you all have to learn to play together. This means being able to hear everything (ideally) and not have it turn into a volume war.

Your FOH recordings don't tell the whole story. You're right that the loudest instrument on stage sets the vibe for the overall mix. I agree with Stumbo about "slotting" instruments at different frequencies. But it seems that you've already determined the main problem is your drummers' volume.

If you can't hear yourself, your technique and finesse go out the window. If you turn up, you're possibly contributing to the problem. That's why I say the band really has to work together on their level, mix and groove.