Sub for Kick

[bassnat]

I have noticed more subs taking on the characteristics of a bass amp, i.e., powered 2x10's or 2x12's, similar size as many bass amps. The worship band I play in uses a Nemesis 2x10 amp to mike the bass drum because it sounds so focused, doing away with the powered 15 sub. Does anyone else have any thoughts about this?

[rtslinger]

I have done that in the past used a small combo amp to give a more define sound to the kick.

[Steve Dallman]

In my band, we often don't run the instruments into the PA. Sometimes we'll run just the kick into the PA. Instead of mic'ing the kick, I put a piezo pickup on it, and we trigger a kick drum sample we like in an Alesis D-4 drum module. It gives us a consistent sound that works well for us.


Whether or not we run the kick in the PA, we have a small subwoofer, like you might have in a car, with a small 150 watt head, and run the kick in there. We like having the kick easily audible on stage with us. As a bass player, it helps me as well.

Years ago, starting in the early 70's, I did a similar thing, using a weird old Ludwig guitar synth box that had a drum sound that could be triggered. We ran that off the kick and ran it through the second channel of my bass amp. I got very used to bass and kick coming from my amp. I did this through the 80's and 90's although the tone generator for the kick changed as technology did.

So, yes...a bass combo can work very well on a kick.

[Tuned]

I mix kick in with my bass through my amp on stage when mixing from stage. Gotta be careful of the speaker's excursion though, kick spikes a lot more than bass.

[RS66LB]

yeah -that actually works well through 10's since they have definition and low end, we've been doing that for years with great kick drum articulation

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by bassnat

Does anyone else have any thoughts about this?

Be careful.

A bass amp/cab/rig is not a subwoofer, and while it can be used as a such if a broad definition of a sub is used, the shortcomings of such a band-aid use can become expensive.

Without a limiter and/or compressor, a single hevy-footed pedal stroke can damage the speakers.

Regards
Sam

[Tuned]

Most rack limiters and compressors don't offer a short enough attack to protect speakers effectively against kick spikes, gotta simply not ask too much of a bass cab. The limiters built into amps are configured for the job, so it's crucial to match your subs with the right amps.

[3506string]

IMO the problem is the way people run subwoofers. I rarely go to venue running subs that isn't murdering the kick drum sound. I see so many sound techs dim all highs and mids and crank the bass and sub aux. It makes for a nice hot fart kick sound. I'd say most people run subs 4-7db hotter than they need to be. The subs should support the mains not overpower them.

I would never choose a bass cab over a proper subwoofer to reinforce a kick drum,but if the kick is only being run through the sub, or extremely hot in the sub, it will likely sound better through a bass cabinet.

However if it is working, then no problem, but I would keep an eye on it. Raw kick drum transients can stress a system quite a bit.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by 3506string

I would never choose a bass cab over a proper subwoofer to reinforce a kick drum,but if the kick is only being run through the sub...

yep, that's the thing; a bass amp is gonna be full-range, and so will in some ways sound better for a kick by itself (assuming you don't blow it) than a powered sub by itself.

the powered sub (which is always internally crossed over to just produce lows) needs a top box to go with it to get the full spectrum.

[TimmyP]

When speaking of subs, definition is actually either a lack of resonance, or lots of distortion. Usually the latter.