Tips for PA and monitor use

[GRAHAM SG1]

Does anyone have any special tips for getting rid of feedback, I know the usual ones like move the mic or sound sources, reduce EQ etc, what I am after are the not so obvious tips that are effective .
I use a Yamaha EMX88 powered mixer amp with two Peavey 12" speakers, a Wharfedale EVP monitor system and Shure 58 mics, the main problem seems to be the size of the places we play, pubs and small clubs do not allow great distance between each piece of equipment .
Does anyone use feedback destroyers or similar devices or have any genius advice ?
Thanks

[walker rosewood]

don't just move the monitors around, first check out the charts for polar patterns.

http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/publ..._specsheet.pdf

http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/publ...ro_sm58_ug.pdf

Shure recommends placing the monitors at 180* from the mic, but looking at the patterns for 1k, 2k, or 4k I like 150*.

There's also the 3 to 1 rule. i.e. if your audio source (person singing) is 1 ft from the mic, there should be no other mics within 3 ft. IMO eat the mic, closer is always better.

You should have a 31-band graph eq for the monitors, preferable each wedge, or at least each send. You already know to cut, don't boost.

Keep the stage volume as low as possible. This seems obvious, but there are way too many bands that think it's only cool if you play half stacks at 11. The problem is on the small stages, say the singer will ask for more vocals in the monitor, you turn up their mic. However the cymbals, bass rig, and guitar cabs are bleeding into that mic and they all turn up with the vocal. So to the vocals don't seem any louder, the singer asks for more still, then the monitors are so loud the guitarist can't hear there amps so the turn them up. Then the singer needs more...you get the point, it turns into feedback city.

To avoid that, keep stage volume on everything as low as you can possibly stand it. Let the PA do the work. Also keep each channels fader close to unity, and raise the gain/trim only as much as needed.

[MuzikMan]

Don't use any more gear than is needed to get the job done. Keep mics to a minimum, or, if that isn't an option, use gates.

[Stumbo]

Use mics with closer response patterns.

[GRAHAM SG1]

Great tips, thanks, feedback is the curse of the part-time pub band with no out front sound man
Most of the time I get it right but there are venues that just dont playball !!

[Phalex]

Our sound guy uses a white/pink noise generator and a meter of some sort to set the FOH to the room's acoustics.

He'll also "ring" the monitors, which involves inducing them to feed back, identifying the offending frequencies, and cutting them with an EQ.

[Emm9T]

Forgive me for being a noob and PA-retarded, but for a pub, couldn't a lot of your equipment be... unmiced? This question is more for my benefit really, just coming up to the point where I need to start getting 'real' equipment for the band.

[LiamPodmore]

Originally Posted by Emm9T

Forgive me for being a noob and PA-retarded, but for a pub, couldn't a lot of your equipment be... unmiced? This question is more for my benefit really, just coming up to the point where I need to start getting 'real' equipment for the band.

I'm guessing that not everything is mic'd, as they are only using 1x12 cabs and Shure SM58 microphones, so it's likely that FOH is vocal only.

Liam

[Emm9T]

Originally Posted by LiamPodmore

I'm guessing that not everything is mic'd, as they are only using 1x12 cabs and Shure SM58 microphones, so it's likely that FOH is vocal only.

Liam

Makes sense. I just figured that like 3 vocals mics wouldn't be a pain to configure decently, but again, lack of experience.

[James Judson]

If you have guitards with the "Marshal stacks on 11" syndrome you will never win this battle. Get rid of the 58's. It takes a sound man to dial out the feedback in those. I use Audix om3's. But there are lots of others. They take a little different technique (usually lips touching). Talk all singers into using the same mic. One weak mic forces all the rest to be turned down to control feedback. Buy and learn to use 31 band (1/3 octave) EQ's.

I frequently have to be sound man, bassist, singer and I take a lot of grief when I say "I'm not fighting with 58's". Your using my mic's or someone else is gonna be soundman. When I get my way there is no (read nada, nil, zip) feedback. Don't get me wrong a 58 was the best mic in the 1950's and remained so til the 90's. Any mic will feedback when turned up loud enough.

Good luck.

[SteveC]

Use a (it's either pink or white) noise generator to "EQ the room" and life will be MUCH better. We have one built in to our Yamaha powered mixer. Keep volumes reasonable. Loud is your enemy.

[RustyAxe]

For the monitors I use a Behringer (yeah, I said it!) FBQ2496 "Feedback Destroyer". Very effective ... and inexpensive. Works in different modes (EQ, static filters, dynamic filters ... latching and non-latching). Ring out the monitors to set up some static filters, and then just let the box do its thing during the performance. It can't compensate for really poor placement problems (ie, a vocal mic in front of a monitor speaker) but marginal setups can be tamed quite easily. Yeah, it sucks some tone, but it's just a monitor after all.

[nutdog]

A backdrop behind the band may help. A curtain of some type. I made one out of a cheap black moving blanket. You can put your logo or some design on it.

[projectMalamute]

Single best thing you can purchase to help with gain before feedback is a 1/3rd octave EQ. With some practice you will learn to recognize the frequencies of feedback, just pull down the correct slider until it stops.

SM58's are fine, thousands and thousands of people have used them in all sorts of situations for decades.

[stflbn]

Supercardiod or Hypercardiod mics rather than the 'standard' SM58's in my opinion. And control your stage volume.


.

[BluesBear]

Real Time Analyzer

The best investment you'll ever make. IF you use it properly.

Look for a used Rane RA-27. Nearly goof proof.

[Stinsok]

I guy I used to play with used a pink noise generator. It pissed everyone off. He used even if there were patrons in the place. It was like standing behind a jet engine.

Concerning the monitors-what I do is have someone stand at the mics (one at the time,) and intentionally induce feedback at that mic. I start at very low volume and "pedal" the feedback until I find the offending frequency. No obnoxious feedback blast, no mad club management. It's rare for us to have any squeals during a show.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by BluesBear

Real Time Analyzer

The best investment you'll ever make. IF you use it properly.

Look for a used Rane RA-27. Nearly goof proof.

There's actually an iPad app for that these days. Haven't tried it myself though.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by Stinsok

I guy I used to play with used a pink noise generator. It pissed everyone off. He used even if there were patrons in the place. It was like standing behind a jet engine.

I use it on our DriveRack via the Auto EQ but only in empty halls / pre-crowd. I store the resulting EQ graph in a memory bank and pull it up when pink noise / Auto EQ would be disruptive. Venue-to-venue, my results are pretty consistent.

Riis

[Highway27]

Originally Posted by projectMalamute

Single best thing you can purchase to help with gain before feedback is a 1/3rd octave EQ. With some practice you will learn to recognize the frequencies of feedback, just pull down the correct slider until it stops.

This is something I've just gotten for our PA (the Behringer FBQ3102), and it really does make a huge difference in the amount of headroom the monitors seem to have. The point about having all the same mic helps as well, since they'll all have about the same feedback frequencies, rather than if you mixed up microphones (we tried running a Blue and a Sennheiser at the same time, and they 'rang' at completely different freqs, which was leading to half the sliders on the EQ cut).