Tone From In-Ears Same As What Audience Is Hearing?

john nam · #1 08-02-2010, 06:53 PM

In other words, if my bass sounds boomy and muddy through my in-ears, is that the same tone (roughly) that the audience is hearing? (My amp is set to "Post-EQ" mode). So if I tweak the EQ on my bass or amp, would that reflect on my tone that is coming out of the PA?

On a slightly different note, if I turn up the volume on my bass or amp, it should increase the volume of my bass through the PAs as well, correct?

**TheMutt** · #2 08-02-2010, 07:01 PM

If you're running out of a DI, increasing the gain should make the signal run a bit hotter to the board, but turning up the volume won't affect the PA at all since that is a control that affects the power amp on your amplifier. Think of the DI out as a parallel preamp output before it gets sent to the power amp.

Also, although you have your amp set to post EQ, the sound engineer may have additional EQ set on the board for your channel, which may not exactly be the same as what you would hear from your amp (especially considering what kinds of different speakers your amp has, what kind of speakers the PA has, and the type of monitors that you are using... including the frequency range of all of these things).

Generally speaking however, yes if you changed the eq settings on your amp, you would notice a difference through your in ears.

**TheMutt** · #3 08-02-2010, 07:04 PM

Oh yeah, if your sound engineer is worth their salt, or is at least paying attention, they will change the EQ settings and gain structure at the board so that whatever changes you made might become negligible.

john nam · #4 08-02-2010, 09:10 PM

Thanks for the info about the EQ. That was what I assumed, but I wasn't sure. What I've been doing is setting my pickups panned exactly to the middle during sound check and then right before actually playing, I pan it to the bridge pickups more to get some more definition in my sound, hoping that the sound people don't notice it and readjust it on the board.

But about the volume, you're saying that even if I turn up the volume on my bass or on my amp, it won't affect the volume of what the audience is hearing as long as I leave the gain on my amp alone?

Tim C. · #5 08-02-2010, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john nam

But about the volume, you're saying that even if I turn up the volume on my bass or on my amp, it won't affect the volume of what the audience is hearing as long as I leave the gain on my amp alone?

The volume the audience hears is controlled by the guy behind the mixing board. If you suddenly boost your bass volume, it will increase the overall volume in the PA until the sound guy makes an adjustment on his end. The best deal is the make all your adjustments during the sound check and leave things be during the show itself.

**TheMutt** · #6 08-02-2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john nam

Thanks for the info about the EQ. That was what I assumed, but I wasn't sure. What I've been doing is setting my pickups panned exactly to the middle during sound check and then right before actually playing, I pan it to the bridge pickups more to get some more definition in my sound, hoping that the sound people don't notice it and readjust it on the board.

But about the volume, you're saying that even if I turn up the volume on my bass or on my amp, it won't affect the volume of what the audience is hearing as long as I leave the gain on my amp alone?

As long as they're not right in the front row where they can actually hear your amp over that of the PA, it shouldn't make a difference. If you're running through the PA in the first place, your amp is essentially serving as an on-stage monitor. If you're using in-ears, it's even less necessary.

TimmyP · #7 08-03-2010, 02:00 AM

Nothing sounds the same as what the audience is hearing - not sidefills, not wedges, not earbuds, not headphones. It's not even the same throughout the audience - especially in the bottom end.

tobie · #8 08-03-2010, 04:04 AM

In short: any change (vol & eq) on your bass will reflect on both your amp & PA. Any change on your amp is 'local' to yourself and does not reflect on the PA. Just check any on-stage changes on your bass with the soundguy, as it might interfere with whatever he's trying to achieve in the house (volume & eq).

Wes Whitmore · #9 08-03-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john nam

In other words, if my bass sounds boomy and muddy through my in-ears, is that the same tone (roughly) that the audience is hearing? (My amp is set to "Post-EQ" mode). So if I tweak the EQ on my bass or amp, would that reflect on my tone that is coming out of the PA?

On a slightly different note, if I turn up the volume on my bass or amp, it should increase the volume of my bass through the PAs as well, correct?

With the info you gave us, YES, any change to your amp's EQ will effect what the audience hears. Any change to your bass EQ will effect what the audience hears as well. Any adjustment of the bass will always effect FOH. Volume adjustments on the amp should not, since the DI is post EQ, but pre master volume knob on most amps. Your PRE-EQ option should pull it right off the input, posibly right after the input pad/knob, but pre EQ. This is how GK amps work, anyhow.
Wes

MNAirHead · #10 08-04-2010, 03:17 PM

nope.. your IEM are not the big box everyone else is listening through.

jaywa · #11 08-04-2010, 03:43 PM

I don't see how IEMs could even come close to reproducing the FOH sound, especially in the low frequencies. The physics just don't allow for it.

The times I've been forced into using IEMs the kick drum sounds like a popcorn fart and my bass sounds like a ukelele. I certainly hope that's not what's going out front.

MNAirHead · #12 08-04-2010, 03:52 PM

jay..

Really takes acclimating to make it happen.. a 2 minutes would be a false try..

Also takes some dialing in.. the IEMs make a difference.

RFord04 · #13 08-04-2010, 03:54 PM

IEM's will never sound like you want to sound, so ignore your tone when using them, just make sure you can hear yourself well in the mix. If you're concerned about your tone, stand out front during sound check whenever possible and listen for yourself.

Also, to reiterate the point, if your amp is set "Post EQ," any changes made to your EQ on your amp will come through the PA. If you trust your sound guy (which it kind of sounds like you might not, since you try to change the sound without him noticing) you should just set the amp's DI to pre-EQ and let him do his thing, unless you run effects through the effects loop, then it'll require you to run post-eq to get the effects in the PA mix.

jaywa · #14 08-04-2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

jay..

Really takes acclimating to make it happen.. a 2 minutes would be a false try..

Also takes some dialing in.. the IEMs make a difference.

Yeah... I was just informed that the church I play at 2-3 times a month is switching from wedges to IEMs and Aviom consoles. I really am not pleased (and not sure why the need cause it's a 1,200 seat theater style room with a huge stage)... but I guess I'll have to figure out how to tolerate it. I think they're still gonna let me keep my amp on stage though so that will help.

Wes Whitmore · #15 08-05-2010, 07:00 AM

It takes some discipline to get through the first couple of weeks using IEMs if all you ever use is wedges. I went into it knowing that I wanted to hear my vocals better in my monitor, save my hearing, and reduce stage volume so the FOH sounded better for the audience, and it's worked out well. It's nice only hearing what you NEED to hear in the mix...

KingRazor · #16 08-05-2010, 10:16 AM

Monitors are so you can hear yourself so you play the right notes, not so you can hear your tone.

As long as you sound good in the PA, don't worry about how crappy your IEMs sound.

TimmyP · #17 08-05-2010, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaywa

I don't see how IEMs could even come close to reproducing the FOH sound, especially in the low frequencies. The physics just don't allow for it.

The times I've been forced into using IEMs the kick drum sounds like a popcorn fart and my bass sounds like a ukelele. I certainly hope that's not what's going out front.

I'd say you were using crap earbuds, or had really bad monitor engineers. Even the $100 M-Audio IE-10 sound very good, with deep & solid bass response.

MNAirHead · #18 08-06-2010, 06:03 AM

Contrary to belief, you can recreate the sound.. it's the chest thud you nomrally give up.

When going IEM many times folks will consider a floor pod ish type unit..

MNAirHead · #19 08-06-2010, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaywa

Yeah... I was just informed that the church I play at 2-3 times a month is switching from wedges to IEMs and Aviom consoles. I really am not pleased (and not sure why the need cause it's a 1,200 seat theater style room with a huge stage)... but I guess I'll have to figure out how to tolerate it. I think they're still gonna let me keep my amp on stage though so that will help.

Seriously..

After you get used to it, the SVT will be gone.. MUCH simpler to use.

Opinions

If you have any say --- have the room RTAd by a pro (not someone on staff) and then implement their suggestion.. lock down the EQ
Start practicing through headphones...today.. zero amps..
Mix sound for your church for a week.. it will become quickly evident that amps screw with FOH sound

You will have to learn to like it if you're going to play in the 500+ chruch world.

timbledum · #20 08-06-2010, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaywa

I don't see how IEMs could even come close to reproducing the FOH sound, especially in the low frequencies. The physics just don't allow for it.

The times I've been forced into using IEMs the kick drum sounds like a popcorn fart and my bass sounds like a ukelele. I certainly hope that's not what's going out front.

Looks like you just gotta sink some good ies. I got ie6s, sienhieser, and they sound so sweet when I get a good aviom mix. Soooo good.