Tops that flatter the Bass?

kringle77 · #1 09-21-2008, 02:34 PM

My band has a pretty solid pa setup and in very small rooms I forego using a stage amp due to space limitations. For speakers we use:
-pair of mackie 4x10 subs
-pair of EV Eliminator dual 15" tops
-crown xti 2000 and 4000 power amps
-dbx drive rack

When I run one of my preamp's di to the board, I usually find that the sound is rather dull and doesn't really cut through the mix. I used to own a pair of JBL JRX-115 tops that I seem to remember sounding very good for bass. Does anyone have any suggestions of tops that really have that mid-range clarity and punch for bass?

tomvelsor · #2 09-21-2008, 02:49 PM

i remember using a friends 2 1x12" JBLs and running my bass through it and being really pleased with it..

but i dont remember anything else that was in that setup..

moody · #3 09-22-2008, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kringle77

My band has a pretty solid pa setup and in very small rooms I forego using a stage amp due to space limitations. For speakers we use:
-pair of mackie 4x10 subs
-pair of EV Eliminator dual 15" tops
-crown xti 2000 and 4000 power amps
-dbx drive rack

When I run one of my preamp's di to the board, I usually find that the sound is rather dull and doesn't really cut through the mix. I used to own a pair of JBL JRX-115 tops that I seem to remember sounding very good for bass. Does anyone have any suggestions of tops that really have that mid-range clarity and punch for bass?

There are to many other factors to even guess. This is a stream of consciousness as to what it may be...: your bass tone may just not cut through volume wise compared to guitars, the monitors you are hearing it through may not be made to run decent amounts of bass, maybe your sound on stage isn't the same as what is out the front, you haven't mentioned sound shaping at the board, is your DI pre or post eq?, Why have you got 15" mains and 10" subs (subs are usually 18 and often 15, rarely 12 and almost never 10), mains are generally better as single 12" or 15's over subs as the dual 15's overpower the horns and sound dull and middy in most MI grade cabinets. Better to get a really good quality single 12" than 2 rubbish 15's. Why are you trying to get the bass to cut though - aren't you the bass that other instruments rest on?

Is that enough to reflect upon for a start? Remember also that the speakers should be designed to amplify the whole band, no good making the bass sound really good at the expense of the other instruments and vocals.

bassman1185 · #4 09-22-2008, 09:55 AM

I work at an AV company, and we have a pair of Eliminator Doubles that I've always thought sounded great. It seems like with a rig like you're describing, your bass should come through just fine. What kind of preamp/DI are you using? Also, the one thing I will say about those doubles is that they are quite power hungry. You have to push them really hard to get a good sound out of them.

kringle77 · #5 09-22-2008, 12:58 PM

First off, the pair of 4x10 subs are very good speakers. When going direct, I use an eden navigator. I go for a middy rock tone and play yamaha attitude basses. Now that you mention it, I have noticed that the EV's sound alot better when driven harder. Im not a novice when it comes to gear but I always like to hear others suggestions.

moody · #6 09-23-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kringle77

First off, the pair of 4x10 subs are very good speakers. When going direct, I use an eden navigator. I go for a middy rock tone and play yamaha attitude basses. Now that you mention it, I have noticed that the EV's sound alot better when driven harder. Im not a novice when it comes to gear but I always like to hear others suggestions.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. 4x10 isn't a normal number for a sub. Are the 4x10's possibly re-purposed bass guitar cabs? If so they aren't really designed as subs and will not have the correct frequency response.

(I'm not saying that they aren't subs, I just think it would be unlikely).

bothroysnvts · #7 09-23-2008, 06:11 PM

I believe this might be the subwoofer that the OP is using, as I couldn't find any other Mackie 410's.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...fer?sku=605282

kringle77 · #8 09-23-2008, 06:41 PM

Yup, those are the subs. If you see these, as a bass player you should be very happy. They sound really good. Im more interested in finding tops that are very punchy and mid-present. It seems that the Eliminators are great but the mids don't really stand out until they are pushed a bit. We don't get a chance to push them often because things would get too loud quick.

moody · #9 09-23-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kringle77

Yup, those are the subs. If you see these, as a bass player you should be very happy. They sound really good. Im more interested in finding tops that are very punchy and mid-present. It seems that the Eliminators are great but the mids don't really stand out until they are pushed a bit. We don't get a chance to push them often because things would get too loud quick.

I'm reading the specs... They still look like a bass cab. 180hz crossover is well into the low mids, that could be where your problematic mids problem comes from. Also, -10db at 40hz is not really a good spec. These subs will give you low end but not as much as most 18's or 15's.

What do you crossover at? What's the frequency response on the 15's? I think both cabinets are probably most efficient in the same area and the crossover frequency is going to be a compromise between them.

bothroysnvts · #10 09-23-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kringle77

Yup, those are the subs. If you see these, as a bass player you should be very happy. They sound really good. Im more interested in finding tops that are very punchy and mid-present. It seems that the Eliminators are great but the mids don't really stand out until they are pushed a bit. We don't get a chance to push them often because things would get too loud quick.

Are you using an active crossover with those? Have you looked into the S408? According to their website they were designed to go together, might be worth a shot!

TimmyP · #11 09-23-2008, 11:15 PM

If your bass is active, start out with its EQ set flat.

Boost the mids on the bass channel EQ - a lot. Adjust the mid sweep between 400 and 1K and see what gives you the most 'growl'. You may then need to reduce the treble to cut down on the 'twank'.

Now play with the bass's EQ to see if it helps.

I find that on most PAs of that size, a healthy cut at 80Hz on the graphic is needed to get rid of the roar and get some semblance of real bottom end.