Used PA Mixer & Speaker Recommends $2K

[bluesbass99]

What would be recommended as a decent PA system for under $2k that I should be looking for. This would be used for primarily small venues (i.e, clubs). No outside venues and Blues would primarily be the genre. I'm in no particular hurry to buy and used equipment would be preferable. I'm reluctantly making this investment since most of the bands I have played with have fairly poor PAs.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[TomB]

Now there's a wide-open question!

I'll try to take a high level pass and hope that's what you're looking for. If you know all this already you can skip to the brand name war that's sure to follow .

If it's all indoor stuff, I'll start from the position that a pair of 8 ohm mains (15" 2 or 3-way) and a pair of 8 ohm monitors (I recommend 15's here as well) will cover the average blues bar set-up. Adust gear upwards to taste. You may want to include a powered sub as well, but I'd say that's optional. You'll need speaker stands... get 2 good ones.

There are lots of competitive products for speaker boxes, and you'll pretty much get what you pay for, but there are two generic options to think about: powered and non-powered.

Most sound folks I know argue that powered speakers sound better. They're certainly more efficient. But they also come at a premium cost that needs to be compared with other power options. The other thing to keep in mind is that you'll need to run house power (US = 120 volt) to each speaker, which can get cumbersome. They'll also require lots of extra XLR cables to connect them all together and to the sound board.

Non-powered speakers are more common, have been around longer if you want to find used gear, and, as the name implies, don't require power to each speaker... and they work just fine. They do require min. 14-guage cables and speakon connectors at both ends are pretty much standard these days. They also come in a huge range of quality, and here again you get what you pay for, usually.

If you decide on powered speakers, you'll need a sound board with at least as many XLR inputs as vocal mics, +1 or 2 min. extra. These come in all flavors and prices. If you decide on non-powered speakers, you'll also need a stereo power amp, typically split one side for mains and 1 side for monitors. Also common for non-powered speakers are powered heads, usually a combo of board + (at least) stereo amps built into a single unit. Again, most major brands make both powered head and non-powered products. You can debate brand names & quality in countless follow-up posts.

The only other immediate need is for mics, stands, and XLR cables. Here again I suggest not skimping on quality, as these pieces will all get heavily abused and you'll want gear that holds up.

A powered sub is costly but useful if you're filling rooms of more than 100 or so capacity Most powered subs I know of have built-in crossovers so you have a variety of options for sending signals through them. Non-powered subs are also an option but require an additional power amp and some form of crossover). All the components come with instructions for hooking things together and there are lots of generic manuals, but the truth is you'll have fun for hours figuring it all out. You should be able to fill the bill laid out above in the ball park of 2K new; considerably less if you're willing to buy pre-packaged kits and skimp on quality here and there, or just buy used gear.

I hope this wasn't WAY more basic than what you were seeking for info. There is typically lots of used gear to consider, including all kinds of rack-mounted goodies as you grow into a system. Have fun, it's great to be self-reliant and helpful to know how to mix from stage.

[MNAirHead]

Put a complete PA wanted ad on craigslist --- contact your local pro audio vendor (for trade ins)

The replies you're going to receive are kind of silly as we don't know your used options.

[Nagrom]

I bought my PA used from a pro audio lights & sound production company, great price ($1300 all in), nice gear (TOA powered mixer + Community boxes). It was one of their rental PA's they replace from time to time. 15 years later not a single problem, hundreds of shows, good sound always.

[bluesbass99]

Originally Posted by TomB

Now there's a wide-open question!

I'll try to take a high level pass and hope that's what you're looking for. If you know all this already you can skip to the brand name war that's sure to follow .

If it's all indoor stuff, I'll start from the position that a pair of 8 ohm mains (15" 2 or 3-way) and a pair of 8 ohm monitors (I recommend 15's here as well) will cover the average blues bar set-up. Adust gear upwards to taste. You may want to include a powered sub as well, but I'd say that's optional. You'll need speaker stands... get 2 good ones.

There are lots of competitive products for speaker boxes, and you'll pretty much get what you pay for, but there are two generic options to think about: powered and non-powered.

Most sound folks I know argue that powered speakers sound better. They're certainly more efficient. But they also come at a premium cost that needs to be compared with other power options. The other thing to keep in mind is that you'll need to run house power (US = 120 volt) to each speaker, which can get cumbersome. They'll also require lots of extra XLR cables to connect them all together and to the sound board.

Non-powered speakers are more common, have been around longer if you want to find used gear, and, as the name implies, don't require power to each speaker... and they work just fine. They do require min. 14-guage cables and speakon connectors at both ends are pretty much standard these days. They also come in a huge range of quality, and here again you get what you pay for, usually.

If you decide on powered speakers, you'll need a sound board with at least as many XLR inputs as vocal mics, +1 or 2 min. extra. These come in all flavors and prices. If you decide on non-powered speakers, you'll also need a stereo power amp, typically split one side for mains and 1 side for monitors. Also common for non-powered speakers are powered heads, usually a combo of board + (at least) stereo amps built into a single unit. Again, most major brands make both powered head and non-powered products. You can debate brand names & quality in countless follow-up posts.

The only other immediate need is for mics, stands, and XLR cables. Here again I suggest not skimping on quality, as these pieces will all get heavily abused and you'll want gear that holds up.

A powered sub is costly but useful if you're filling rooms of more than 100 or so capacity Most powered subs I know of have built-in crossovers so you have a variety of options for sending signals through them. Non-powered subs are also an option but require an additional power amp and some form of crossover). All the components come with instructions for hooking things together and there are lots of generic manuals, but the truth is you'll have fun for hours figuring it all out. You should be able to fill the bill laid out above in the ball park of 2K new; considerably less if you're willing to buy pre-packaged kits and skimp on quality here and there, or just buy used gear.

I hope this wasn't WAY more basic than what you were seeking for info. There is typically lots of used gear to consider, including all kinds of rack-mounted goodies as you grow into a system. Have fun, it's great to be self-reliant and helpful to know how to mix from stage.

Thanks, TomB. This is great information. I appreciate it very much.

[walterw]

for used mixers in this bracket, you can not beat the allen & heath mixwizard. besides being pretty much the most "pro" mixer in its size and price range, it's built with individual boards for each channel like "real" touring boards; this makes it fixable, unlike many cheaper mixers where the whole thing is on one giant circuitboard.

as for speakers, +1 to 15+horn tops, but -1 to 15+horn monitors. wedges will just be handling vocals in this application, which 12s tend to do better. plus, they'll be smaller, lighter, and cheaper, three good things for a "hatchback PA".

powered speakers are indeed cool, but used? we're only just now getting into lightweight, kick-ass powered boxes that don't break the bank. used boxes from a few years ago will likely not be lightweight or very kick-ass.

power amps, however, have dropped to the point of being almost "commodities". the new class D stuff is just so lightweight, powerful, and cheap, that it's driven used prices down, especially if you don't mind a bit of weight. (a quick hop over to ebay brought up hundreds of QSC amps that likely sold for well over a grand a few years ago selling for less than $500 now!)

it's the same with processing: with everybody going to driverack-type digital controllers, nice separate EQs and crossovers from ashly or rane can be had cheap.

on top of that, with everybody going to digital mixing boards, used effects like compressors, gates, delays and reverbs are even cheaper than ever.

my current set-up:

mixwix 16:2
rane PE-17 parametric
aphex 105 quad gate
cheap lexicon fx box
dbx 166 comp
rane AC 22b crossover
QSC PL2 for tops
QSCPL4 for subs
yorkville E15 tops and ls608 subs

except for the speakers and the lexicon, it was all bought used for cheap, is way beyond typical behringer/mackie quality, and kicks ass in bars and clubs.

[mboogiemanusa]

Originally Posted by bluesbass99

What would be recommended as a decent PA system for under $2k that I should be looking for. This would be used for primarily small venues (i.e, clubs). No outside venues and Blues would primarily be the genre. I'm in no particular hurry to buy and used equipment would be preferable. I'm reluctantly making this investment since most of the bands I have played with have fairly poor PAs.

Thanks in advance for your help.

I put together a similar bar band pa mostly off Craigslist and Ebay for under $2000. Speakers I bought used at Guitar center during their blow out holiday sales. I have been using this system 3 to 4 times a week for 3 years now. Only piece I bought new was the QSC power amp which can handle a daisy chain of 4 Yamaha S115's for larger venues.

Mackie 1604 16 ch mixer - ebay $200
Soundtech 300watt power amp (spare amp)- ebay $75
QSC GX5 power amp (new) GC $400
Carvin 400w monitor amp - ebay $75
(2) Yamaha S115 500w speakers (used) - GC $200
(2) JBL JRX100 12" monitors (used) - GC $200
(2) 12" Carvin speakers for side fills or extra mains - Craigslist $75
50 ft snake cable - Craigslist $40
Numerous speaker cables - ebay/Craigslist/GC $150
various quality mics (shure/AKG) and 20 mic cables - ebay $200
(2) Speaker stands and (6) mic/boom stands - ebay $125

Quality pa for around $1740
I rent this out to other bands as a soundman for gigs / and I have a rehearsal studio that I rent out by the hour.

You have lots of options for $2000
You can probably just get by a powered 8ch PA head and some 15" speakers and maybe powered monitors - lots of options
We like to mic drums, guitar amps and 4 vocalists so went with a 16 ch mixer.

I would stay away from cheaply made Behringer gear however - too many friends have had problems

[mboogiemanusa]

Originally Posted by bluesbass99

What would be recommended as a decent PA system for under $2k that I should be looking for. This would be used for primarily small venues (i.e, clubs). No outside venues and Blues would primarily be the genre. I'm in no particular hurry to buy and used equipment would be preferable. I'm reluctantly making this investment since most of the bands I have played with have fairly poor PAs.

Thanks in advance for your help.

I put together a similar bar band pa mostly off Craigslist and Ebay for under $2000. Speakers I bought used at Guitar center during their blow out holiday sales. I have been using this system 3 to 4 times a week for 3 years now. Only piece I bought new was the QSC power amp which can handle a daisy chain of 4 Yamaha S115's for larger venues.

Mackie 1604 16 ch mixer - ebay $200
Soundtech 300watt power amp (spare amp)- ebay $75
QSC GX5 power amp (new) GC $400
Carvin 400w monitor amp - ebay $75
(2) Yamaha S115 500w speakers (used) - GC $200
(2) JBL JRX100 12" monitors (used) - GC $200
(2) 12" Carvin speakers for side fills or extra mains - Craigslist $75
50 ft snake cable - Craigslist $40
Numerous speaker cables - ebay/Craigslist/GC $150
various quality mics (shure/AKG) and 20 mic cables - ebay $200
(2) Speaker stands and (6) mic/boom stands - ebay $125

Quality pa for around $1740
I rent this out to other bands as a soundman for gigs / and I have a rehearsal studio that I rent out by the hour.

You have lots of options for $2000
You can probably just get by a powered 8ch PA head and some 15" speakers and maybe powered monitors - lots of options
We like to mic drums, guitar amps 4 vocals so went with a 16 ch mixer.

I would stay away from cheaply made Behringer gear however - too many friends have had problems

[Jazzdogg]

+1 on the Allen & Heath MixWiz 16:2; when I upgraded from a small Yamaha mixer to the MixWiz my band mates, and regular audience members, noticed the improvement in sound quality without any prompting from me.

I eventually purchased a lot of the ancillary gear mentioned by WalterW, but you can limp by with a bare-bones PA for a year or two if you have to. If you do lots of research, buy used gear in good condition, upgrade strategically, and pay cash (NO DEBT), you can save a lot of money.

Once you get used to a certain level of quality, electronic control, and flexibility, it's hard to go back to a bare-bones system. But, it can be a huge waste of money to buy cheap gear just because you can get lots of bells & whistles at a low price: buy once, cry once - within reason.

If I were buying a new mixer today, I'd seriously consider one of the new Presonus digital models; the MixWiz is a GREAT analog board, but a good digital board is way more flexible, albeit with a steeper learning curve. Munjibunga bought a Presonus digital board and seems very satisfied. Maybe he'll chime in.

Be sure to check out ProSoundWeb:
ProSoundWeb Community - Index

Good luck!

[Zooberwerx]

With the exception of the dbx DriveRack, everything was purchased used, some of it from our fellow TBers:

Soundcraft Spirit FX16 Mixer
Aphex 104 Enhancer
BBE Sonic Max (used on monitor mixes)
ART GEQ (free, courtesy of dcr / Doug)
dbx DriveRack PA+
QSC RMX 1450's and 2450's...4 of 'em
Old Fender 15" enclosures for monitors
Carvin LS1503 Mains
Yorkville PS18 "budget" 18" subs

Riis

[NickfromSOS]

are you looking to mic everything? I've been gigging for more than 10 years with an old Mackie 808s powered head, 2 Peavey PR speakers (the 15s are nice and light) and 2 yamaha floor monitors. All speakers are 8 ohms each. That's a 4 ohm load on each power amp in the Mackie. I've never had a problem with that set up. For bars, we run vocals, keys and acoustic through it and stage volume the bass, guitar and drums. Reverb and eq's built into the PA head. More than adequate. If you're looking to get into more elaborate mixing, then this won't work.

[scribe522]

"for used mixers in this bracket, you can not beat the allen & heath mixwizard........"

Can anybody comment on the Allen & Heath ZED-22 FX? It would seem to do everything the Mix Wiz does, with added ease of recording when necessary?

[allexcosta]

Originally Posted by scribe522

"for used mixers in this bracket, you can not beat the allen & heath mixwizard........"

Can anybody comment on the Allen & Heath ZED-22 FX? It would seem to do everything the Mix Wiz does, with added ease of recording when necessary?

The MixWiz sounds better...

[allexcosta]

To the OP:

Give this guy a call:

Meyer PA Cabinets

And see if you can grab a pair of those Meyers...

Get a decent mixer and amp later...