Using a personal mixer for in-ears

[ShowKing]

Hey guys,

I just got my own custom in-ear monitors from Ultimate Ears.

Now that I have in-ears, I was looking into wireless transmitters and receivers but they are very very expensive and not in my budget.

My gigs usually don't involve me moving around much so I thought why not get a personal mixer, like how drummers usually do it, and set it up where I normally stand on stage?
Then I can get a super long cable to plug my in-ears into which will go into my mixer.

So what do you guys think of my idea?
Also, I'd love suggestions for good mixers I can look into.

I heard good stuff about the Rolls PM351.
Do I need a separate belt pack or can I plug everything straight into the PM351?

Many thanks.

[domdec314]

I've seen a lot of bass players on here using personal mixer. The most popular seems to be the Rolls PM351:

http://www.amazon.com/Rolls-Personal.../dp/B001032IDS

It give you three channels: instrument input (with built-in DI out), mic input, and a line-in for plugging into the main mixer to hear everything else. It definitely sucks trying to set your monitor mix from the main mixer, especially if its not near you. The PM351 is perfect for this situation and I plan on getting one in a few weeks.

EDIT: Here's a great thread for those looking into using IEM's...

IEM TRICKS - From Email requests.

[ShowKing]

Originally Posted by domdec314

I've seen a lot of bass players on here using personal mixer. The most popular seems to be the Rolls PM351:

http://www.amazon.com/Rolls-Personal.../dp/B001032IDS

It give you three channels: instrument input (with built-in DI out), mic input, and a line-in for plugging into the main mixer to hear everything else. It definitely sucks trying to set your monitor mix from the main mixer, especially if its not near you. The PM351 is perfect for this situation and I plan on getting one in a few weeks.

EDIT: Here's a great thread for those looking into using IEM's...

IEM TRICKS - From Email requests.

Thanks for that. It seems like PM351 is a good option.
Is the PM351 all I need?
I don't need any extra units? Cos this diagram has a belt pack..


Sometimes, thinking about setting this up and discussing it with the sound guy etc seems like it could be a hassle on certain gigs but I guess this is something we all have to deal with.

[MNAirHead]

Couple of opinions .....


1 - set it up on a pedal board..... Just like you would effects ... This can be simple or elaborate ---- reason for simple is its tough for you to guess at what position you can use it .... Sometimes it's at foh..... Sometimes it's at the snake..... Sometimes off a monitor feed

I keep a pm350 (older version) on my std pedal board too

Having your cables and connectors mounted to the board and ready will speed things up ----- the stand mount is really for permanent installations

-----

2 - I believe the 2ndpack in your diagram is for limiter ..... The body pack of a psm200 does the limiting and can be picked up used

[MNAirHead]

Belt pack...


Buy 2ea of the RadioShack 25 foot extension cable - eventually one will break

[ShowKing]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Couple of opinions .....

1 - set it up on a pedal board..... Just like you would effects ... This can be simple or elaborate ---- reason for simple is its tough for you to guess at what position you can use it .... Sometimes it's at foh..... Sometimes it's at the snake..... Sometimes off a monitor feed

I keep a pm350 (older version) on my std pedal board too

Having your cables and connectors mounted to the board and ready will speed things up ----- the stand mount is really for permanent installations

-----

2 - I believe the 2ndpack in your diagram is for limiter ..... The body pack of a psm200 does the limiting and can be picked up used

Thanks, setting up as part of my board seems like the way to go.

So i dont really need a body pack right?
I can just go directly into the pm351?

Also, if i go bass - board - psm351 - FOH ... Where does my amp fit in?

[MNAirHead]

Replied on iem tricks thread

[Jerry Ziarko]

The only problem I see, and to me a BIG one, there is no brickwall limiting in what I've seen here. Using IEM's without it to me is playing with fire. Something goes horribly wrong, you can not back away from the source, like with a wedge. I know many do it, I would not. People use weed whackers all the time without safety glasses as well. MOST make out OK. Sadly, some do not....

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by Jerry Ziarko

The only problem I see, and to me a BIG one, there is no brickwall limiting in what I've seen here. Using IEM's without it to me is playing with fire. Something goes horribly wrong, you can not back away from the source, like with a wedge. I know many do it, I would not. People use weed whackers all the time without safety glasses as well. MOST make out OK. Sadly, some do not....

This and one iem in (like MTV videos) are both frowned upon

[ShowKing]

Thanks everyone. I'm already learning a lot.

i'm thinking of going thru my pedalboard to my amp as usual, but use the DI out from the amp head into the pm351.
Is going DI to DI like this ok? I just like to make sure.

Any suggestions for limiters? I'm looking into the one by jump audio as in the diagram above.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by ShowKing

Thanks everyone. I'm already learning a lot.

i'm thinking of going thru my pedalboard to my amp as usual, but use the DI out from the amp head into the pm351.
Is going DI to DI like this ok? I just like to make sure.

Any suggestions for limiters? I'm looking into the one by jump audio as in the diagram above.

To be cool to sound guys...

I have a laminated card that shows all the points they can take a DI signal from.

"can my amp di work" is not a complete question... some amp dis suck... some don't have ground lift.

the best route is to have a DI on your board... then have the DI on your rolls available... then have one on your amp..

Let the sound guy choose... MOST of the time, they'll pick the di closest to your bass.

[MNAirHead]

Limiters... Shure PSM200 is my personal suggestion... sooner or later you'll be adding a wireless option... you can velcro the body pack to your PM351... it has a limiter in it.

[Vege-mity-mite]

I don't see the point of having a pedalboard and then DI'ing after the bass - seems like you're missing out on a lot of your unique sound.

I'd rather give them the same point as the in-ears, so they get pretty much the sound you hear. The amp eq controls can then dial your rig for the room.

[ShowKing]

Originally Posted by Vege-mity-mite

I don't see the point of having a pedalboard and then DI'ing after the bass - seems like you're missing out on a lot of your unique sound.

I'd rather give them the same point as the in-ears, so they get pretty much the sound you hear. The amp eq controls can then dial your rig for the room.

Yeah, this is why i want to put the final DI after my pedals and amp so i get my shaped tone to the FOH and to my in-ears.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by Vege-mity-mite

I don't see the point of having a pedalboard and then DI'ing after the bass - seems like you're missing out on a lot of your unique sound.

I'd rather give them the same point as the in-ears, so they get pretty much the sound you hear. The amp eq controls can then dial your rig for the room.

Bit depends on the venues you play--- AND if the sound team are passionate career folks...... for corner bars you could be fine

Reminds me of Friday night (playing a mega church Christmas concert)..... 16 staff people just for band production.... 1/2 million dollars in av gear

If the production director told me to honk a kazoo, play a trombone, wear leotards & cape - chances are he's more qualified person

----

Ill say it over and over --- the folks that grasp over "my tone" commonly are band deaf and trying to recreate a bedroom sound.... The sound standing in front of your gear is normally not what the audience hears or cares about

why????

Overall, the better the gear and sound guy, the less gear they want between bass strings and xlr cord

[ShowKing]

but if you are using effects, it's not going to go through to the FOH if the DI is after the bass?

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by ShowKing

but if you are using effects, it's not going to go through to the FOH if the DI is after the bass?

Correct - not to be the bearer of bad news --- the farther away you are from personally paying the sound tech, the less of any of the gizmos and options they'll put through the mains

I own effects - have gigged enough to understand reality

[derrico1]

True, but only to a point. Most sound techs want to run DI lines that are as uncompromised as possible: clean/strong instrument signal and zero unnecessary failure points.

Do they want to compromise that chain with an unknown bassist's pedalboard that holds a muting tuner, eq, compressor, gain, and aural exciter, all patched through a nest of patch cables of unknown age and quality, as well as a bypass loop or two (to manage the hiss and high end loss)? No, they do not. Most of that signal processing is duplicated in the PA racks; and at larger gigs, the quality of the FOH rack gear is likely at least as good as what's on the pedalboard, and it's dialed in so that the FOH bass signal isn't going to disappear or jump 6 dBs when unknown bassist X hits the wrong button in his stomp-box dance.

That said, if you have a Mutron, bass synth, or other signature effect that's integral to your arrangements, a good sound tech will want to make sure that gets to FOH. If you can, you'll make life easier if you can provide FOH a DI path with just the essential effects (uncluttered by processing that's geared toward tweaking your stage rig).

[Vege-mity-mite]

Yes, that's what I was alluding to with the same signal split FOH/in-ears/amp-in - the musician is responsible for the sound production (he is the musician, right?) The stage rig gets the same signal, but amp eq tweaks don't affect FOH or in-ears. It'd be hard for the FOH to reproduce exactly what the musician has set on the pedalboard at exactly the same time unless they had a duplicate of the entire pedalboard AND know the song changes as well as the musician. And what if the musician feels like doing something different that night?

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by Vege-mity-mite

Yes, that's what I was alluding to with the same signal split FOH/in-ears/amp-in - the musician is responsible for the sound production (he is the musician, right?) The stage rig gets the same signal, but amp eq tweaks don't affect FOH or in-ears. It'd be hard for the FOH to reproduce exactly what the musician has set on the pedalboard at exactly the same time unless they had a duplicate of the entire pedalboard AND know the song changes as well as the musician. And what if the musician feels like doing something different that night?

To be blunt - who exactly is paying the sound guy .....

Unfortunately reality comes down to this

I have gizmos in my chain ---- with 4 di points they can pull from---- 90% of the time they'll take the one closest to the bass