Vocalist Issue.....

[DWBass]

The female vocalist in my band has horrible mic technique but seems to be unwilling to correct. She's a good singer but when she gets to very loud passages, her mouth is right up on the mic (like a rapper)! Suffice it to say, it's extremely loud and annoying to the band and to the audience.

Will something like this work for us?? The soundguy we have just isn't knowledgable or fast enough to contain her so we need something now!!

[RustyAxe]

Set her up with a studio pop filter that keeps her from eatin' the mic. Some compression or limiting on her vocals wouldn't hurt.

[kb9wyz]

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

Set her up with a studio pop filter that keeps her from eatin' the mic. Some compression or limiting on her vocals wouldn't hurt.

+1

I hate it when people deep throat mics. The comp you linked to looks like it would do the trick.

One thing you may try, though. When you play out with other bands, ask their vocalists to criticize your singer's mic technique as amateurish and poor, saying she needs to correct it if she wants to be taken seriously.

I always have found that the most meaningful criticism comes from those who play the same instrument. It could work, though it is a longer term solution.

[testing1two]

Many singers can't correct their mic technique because they don't know how. In fact, they're not really sure what the problem is. Instead of a limiter, try getting her a mic pre with a VU meter so she can practice singing through it and actually see the fluctuations & peaks in her signal and how they affect the signal chain. Something like this would do the trick: PreSonus

[projectMalamute]

That thing is going to kill your gain before feedback in the monitors. Also tends to be really hard on the singer's voice. You really almost never want compression in the monitors.

What you want to do is mult the mic out to two channels on the console. Channel one feeds the FOH and gets a compressor on the insert, channel two feeds the monitors and does not.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by DWBass

Will something like this work for us??

No. IMHO only of course.

While I do like (and use) the one knob compressor in my Yamaha desk in simple duties, something more controllable would be better, even if it says Behringer on the face plate .

Compression is seldom the cure though, just a band-aid solution, "invisible" compressors just don't exist in budget gear. If in any price range for that matter.


If the excess volume on loud passages is the main problem, beefing up her monitor and raising the level will work in the majority of the cases.
In fact it's usually (unfortunately) works un-intentionally: the singer sings softly, which necessitates the monitor level to be raised, which in turn makes the singer hear his/her voice better, which in turn makes them sing softer, which in turn... You get the point.

I usually use a soft windscreen to prevent DT, makes 'em easier to clean as well.

Regards
Sam

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by projectMalamute

That thing is going to kill your gain before feedback in the monitors. Also tends to be really hard on the singer's voice. You really almost never want compression in the monitors.

What you want to do is mult the mic out to two channels on the console. Channel one feeds the FOH and gets a compressor on the insert, channel two feeds the monitors and does not.

You can use a comp/limiter on the whole signal if it's set up right. Set the threshold high enough so that most of the time it's not doing anything and a sharp knee with a lot of reduction. It will sound horrible when it chops her signal, and if she can hear herself when it happens she'll learn not to do what causes it.

[fokof]

Why wouldn't she have a lesson or two on mike handling technique ?

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by fokof

Why wouldn't she have a lesson or two on mike handling technique ?

It was mentioned to her about her mic technique, and she flat out said she does not need to learn any mic technique! I don't get it! It gets so 'effing' loud, I just don't know how she can't hear herself (unless she's deaf and has not told anyone)! We need to do something because we're getting a lot of complaints from employers and listeners! It's a shame because she can sing her ass off and has Chaka Khan like range!

I know it's not the greatest fix but we need to do something. I wish we had some outboards effects but our mixer and system in general is pretty basic and it does have the big B on it! It's actually a pretty decent board. Just not a lot of options or power. Just your basic onboard effects but no compression.

[derrico1]

+1 to peak compression approaching limiting on her vocals in the mains. Also +1 to the biggest windscreen you can get.

It's a bind, because if she's being a mule you can't make her recognize the problem without steps that hurt her performance or the audience. ("Because of complaints, we have to set your vocal volume in the mix for the crazy peaks. Sorry if that makes most of your quiet passages inaudible.")

[Jimbob Jones]

She just needs someone who she recognises as a superior/equal to sit her down for, like, 5 minutes and explain how much of a bad idea chewing a mic is. Maybe watch some live vids of other performers, looking out for mic technique. (slightly OT, Matt Bellamy's mic technique is pretty wild, but effective, if you're interested!)

[testing1two]

Originally Posted by DWBass

It was mentioned to her about her mic technique, and she flat out said she does not need to learn any mic technique!

I know it seems harsh but I would kick her to the curb. Unwillingness to learn or collaborate for the good of the music is a deal-breaker in my book. In all seriousness, singers are a dime a dozen. There are so many eager and talented people who would love to sing for a good band. I would rather spend my time making music with them, not placating the egos of the disillusioned and mediocre.

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by testing1two

I know it seems harsh but I would kick her to the curb. Unwillingness to learn or collaborate for the good of the music is a deal-breaker in my book. In all seriousness, singers are a dime a dozen. There are so many eager and talented people who would love to sing for a good band. I would rather spend my time making music with them, not placating the egos of the disillusioned and mediocre.

The thought of her being dismissed has been brought up. There are other issues that just may result in her being left behind.

[MarkA]

Make a recording from the board (you could tell the sound guy not to correct for anything after setting the initial levels if you want to), or from out in the house. Have her listen to it. You could also have someone both you and she respect come to a rehearsal. Or you could record the rehearsal. Variations on the same theme, here, but you get the point.

Having crap mic technique isn't a huge issue if someone is willing to learn.

[agreatheight]

Yes, your singer should be handling her dynamics a little better than she is but your sound guy should be handling the dynamics better on his end, too. Is there no compressor on the mixer? If not, you need one. FMR RNC1773 is a good one on the cheap. Welcome to FMR Audio They both need to learn how to get things sounding right.

[craig.p]

I agree she should be let go. A failure to learn and improve is sufficient justification.

If you don't want to fire her, though, I believe a compressor solely for that channel would be a good idea. Better yet, a limiter, though a compressor set up properly should be able to accomplish roughly the same thing. You want a fairly high threshold and a fast attack and a large gain reduction. (Basically, you want it to wait until the signal is large before it comes in, but when it does come in, to do so ruthlessly.) You can experiment with settings when she's not there.

I agree there should be system-wide compression, but it's a good idea to process at the channel level, too, when that channel is carrying a borderline incompetent. I find it's usually best to fix problems as early as possible in the signal chain, because then the problems aren't carried downstream where they can pollute a mix that's otherwise acceptable.

[DWBass]

Is there a Limiter only unit similar to the units mentioned above? I don't want to spend a lot of money.

[ric stave]

Welcome to my f'n band.......

Female Singer.... don't 'get it' - sings loud when she knows it, backs way off when she don't, and then beeothes that she can't hear herself.

Drummer (Main Male Singer) .... don't 'get it' - sings loudly and on top of the mic when he knows it, or when talking, but backs off on his 'weak' stuff, but then (when up front and sings thru MY mic) bitches that MY mic is louder..... well, YEah! it IS - but I don't SCREAM into it when I TALK between songs. I set it for an 'average' level and KNOW how to use it thru the night.

Oh, and HE is much louder than SHE, but a few songs they switch mics, and then he wonders why it's not the same.......



I h8 running sound during a gig....... (well, with idiots....)

Originally Posted by DWBass

It was mentioned to her about her mic technique, and she flat out said she does not need to learn any mic technique! I don't get it! It gets so 'effing' loud, I just don't know how she can't hear herself (unless she's deaf and has not told anyone)! We need to do something because we're getting a lot of complaints from employers and listeners! It's a shame because she can sing her ass off and has Chaka Khan like range!

I know it's not the greatest fix but we need to do something. I wish we had some outboards effects but our mixer and system in general is pretty basic and it does have the big B on it! It's actually a pretty decent board. Just not a lot of options or power. Just your basic onboard effects but no compression.

[James Judson]

Make her use a mic with a close proximity effect. They sound best when lips are touching the mic and have great feedback rejection. I use Audix OM3's and have to teach anyone singing in them to "eat" the mic. Musicians learn to love these mics in time.

I love it when a sound man can't control feedback and says "I think its your mic", I then point the mic right in the speaker (no feedback).

Good luck "teaching" musicians. They are largely untrainable.

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by James Judson

Good luck "teaching" musicians. They are largely untrainable.

It's what separates the pros from the amateurs! And it's a wonder why some folks never 'make' it. It's a shame because she's a great singer! Just no mic technique!