We are buying equipment for my band to play live!! What do we need???

[Music_for_life]

Hi, I live in Argentina with my band we want to gig more, the problem in my country is that clubs that rent live sound ask for a lot of money, so we are going to invest money to have our own equipment to play anywhere!!
We are 5 members: I am the bass player, a keyboard player and vocals, a guitar player, 1 lead vocals and a drummer.
I am the only one in the band that have his own equipment, I have a hartke xl 4x10 and a GK 1001rb2, we need a new drum beacuase the drummer have his drum very far from here. The guitar player don`t have an amp, a new drum, something for the voice, I don`t know what...the keyboard from the monitors I will buy
So with al this we will listen our instruments at stage....
What do we need for the audience???? A console to mix the instruments??? Other speakers????
Thanks!!! We need this to play in small and medium veniiaus...the lead vocals and keyboard player have an idea of sound engeneering but they don`t know precisely what we will need. I have 1200 usd to buy all, we are needing something cheap but reliable!
Thanks!

After reading some very good information I came to this AFFORDABLE COMBINATION
MIXER 12 CHANELS Behringer Xenyx 1202 Fx
DeRemate.com.ar: CONSOLA DE SONIDO BEHRINGER XENYX 1002 FX OFERTA!!! - U$S 193.00

4 active monitors like thios one: Winco of 150 watts
DeRemate.com.ar: Parlante ACTIVO 8 Pulgadas * USB . MiC . 150W RMS ! - $ 674.99

PAIR MAIN SPEAKERS OF 400 WATTS Peavey Pv115
DeRemate.com.ar: Peavey Pv115 Bafle Con Parlantes De 15 Y Driver 1 Audio Pro - $ 1164.99

So there we have 1370 usd,....I will buy all the live sound equipment because I would like to keep for myself...I have 1200 usd to spend, but I can get the rest of the money

The only things I am missing are: Do I need a power amp??? How much do I have to spend in mics if I use 2 for the drums, and one for the guitar amp???? I think I can connect the gallien krueger amp to the PA so I don`t need another mic. We already have 2 mics for both singers.

I am the only one that have the money, perhaps if the keyboard player accepts and put some money we can buy a drum and a guitar amp for the guitar player. I would like to keep the drum for myself so I can pay it to him during some months.

[Music_for_life]

I have found this things after looking for information at the forum

Power amp peavey:PV-1500 amp: 600 usd
compresor dbx 160a: 500 usd
16 channel mixer behringer Pmp4000: 600 usd
SAMSON RS215 HD 2-15" speakers: 500 usd
2-12" monitors 200 usd

What are the most important things for a reliable sound?? can you recomend cheaper options?? The power amp peavey is very expensive the same the mixer, are any cheaper ones??

[Marton]

As far as I know, this Behringer mixer is amplified, so you don't need another power ampé

[Music_for_life]

Originally Posted by Marton

As far as I know, this Behringer mixer is amplified, so you don't need another power ampé

Great!!
Can I use my dbx 160a for the band as a PA compressor for the kick drum and vocals??

[Stumbo]

Here are a few links you may want to check out:

~PA/Lighting
First P.A.
1 What size?
2
Configuring
Placing Subs
DIY monitors
1 Upgrading
2

1What mixer is your band runnin'?
2
QSC K series PA discussion
Microphones

Low cost lighting

~FOH
Sound Guy or not To Sound Guy?
Working with the "sound guy"
Cheap vs. Expensive DI
Working a DI
1 Learn live sound mixing
2
3
Frequency ranges of band instruments
Bass string notes,frequencies and harmonics chart
EQ primer (all instruments)
FOH vs. on-stage sound
Solving odd feed back situations

Isolating Head/Cabs from stage/each other
Best wireless?

[Jools4001]

To be honest, the lead vocalist and keyboard player probably haven't got any knowledge of sound engineering at all if they don't know what you will need.

My advice?

Don't buy a new drumkit, so what if the drummer's current kit is far away, it's got to be cheaper for him to have it packed and shipped to where he is now than buy new?

Don't have the keyboard player buy his own amp. Get him to contribute whatever he would pay for the amp he has in mind to the overall budget

Don't have the guitar player buy a more powerful amp from this collective budget.

Do buy a reasonable mixing desk as the heart of a PA system. At a minimum you will need it to have 1 channel for each singer, plus a microphone for each of them. You will need a microphone to put in front of the guitarists small amp and another channel on the mixer to put that into. The keyboards don't need an amp of their own, they can be fed directly into the PA, so you will need a further channel for each keyboard that the keys player owns (if it's only one keyboard then fine). You will find that most mixers have a number of mono channels which are for putting a microphone (or a mono signal of any sort) into, it will also have a number of stereo channels that you can feed keyboards into (keyboards usually have a stereo output).

So that's 3 microphone channels so far plus a number of stereo channels depending on how many keyboards you have. So a small mixer would be fine to start with

Since you're only starting out (unless you are phenomenally talented) I doubt that you will be playing big venues to large audiences, so you should be fine with your amp for bass and the drums won't need any further amplification. If you get to the point where you are playing biiger places and both the drums and bass need to be amplified more then you can also put them through the PA. You can use a further 4 microphones for the drumkit, 1 on the kick drum, 1 to pick up the snare and hi-hat, plus two mics placed high above the kit on either side to pick up the toms and cymbals. You bass can also be ampified by puttin a mic in front of your cab, or more typically by just running a signal lead from your amps DI output directly into the mixing desk.

Even with the addition of these extra channels you are only up to 8 mono feeds (2 singers mics, 1 mic for the guitar amp, 4 mics for the drum kit and 1 for your bass) plus as many stereo channels as the keyboards need. So a 12 channel mixer will give you all the channels you need for the first few years. By the time you come to need more channels and need to upgrade your mixer you should have the experience to know exactly what you need.

So I would buy a 12 or 16 channel desk. At this stage I would also look for one with built in digital effects so that you can add reverb etc to the vocals without needing a separate effects unit. I would also buy one with it's own small graphic EQ so that you can apply overall changes to the tone without I don't know how much one of these costs in Argentina, but here in the UK you should easily be able to get a 12 channel mixer like this for around $5-600. Then you will need monitor speakers so that the band can hear what's going on on stage. I'd suggest that you could get away with 4 monitors, 1 for each singer and the other two positioned so that you, the guitar and drummer could hear them. I would buy active monitors that have the amp built in to them (you could also go for small active PA cabs that can be turned on their side to act as floor monitors, with two of them placed either side of the stage as sidefill monitors). Having the amp built into them makes them easier to transport and set up, and takes the guesswork of matching amps away since the manufacturer has already done that for you. Once again, if you shop around you should be able to get a 150watt active monitor or PA cab for around 300 each, so that's $1200 for four of them.

For the main speakers, I would choose full range active speakers of around 400 wats each - same advantage of having the amp built in - there are many manufacturers but stuff such as JBL Eon or Mackie SRM450's can be found for between $1200-1500 per pair.

So, spend all your money on microphones and PA equipment, for $3000 plus the moey that the keyboard player saves from not having to buy his own amp you should be able to get a respectable PA system that will be fine for audiences up to around 200 people.

[Music_for_life]

Originally Posted by Jools4001

To be honest, the lead vocalist and keyboard player probably haven't got any knowledge of sound engineering at all if they don't know what you will need.

My advice?

Don't buy a new drumkit, so what if the drummer's current kit is far away, it's got to be cheaper for him to have it packed and shipped to where he is now than buy new?

Don't have the keyboard player buy his own amp. Get him to contribute whatever he would pay for the amp he has in mind to the overall budget

Don't have the guitar player buy a more powerful amp from this collective budget.

Do buy a reasonable mixing desk as the heart of a PA system. At a minimum you will need it to have 1 channel for each singer, plus a microphone for each of them. You will need a microphone to put in front of the guitarists small amp and another channel on the mixer to put that into. The keyboards don't need an amp of their own, they can be fed directly into the PA, so you will need a further channel for each keyboard that the keys player owns (if it's only one keyboard then fine). You will find that most mixers have a number of mono channels which are for putting a microphone (or a mono signal of any sort) into, it will also have a number of stereo channels that you can feed keyboards into (keyboards usually have a stereo output).

So that's 3 microphone channels so far plus a number of stereo channels depending on how many keyboards you have. So a small mixer would be fine to start with

Since you're only starting out (unless you are phenomenally talented) I doubt that you will be playing big venues to large audiences, so you should be fine with your amp for bass and the drums won't need any further amplification. If you get to the point where you are playing biiger places and both the drums and bass need to be amplified more then you can also put them through the PA. You can use a further 4 microphones for the drumkit, 1 on the kick drum, 1 to pick up the snare and hi-hat, plus two mics placed high above the kit on either side to pick up the toms and cymbals. You bass can also be ampified by puttin a mic in front of your cab, or more typically by just running a signal lead from your amps DI output directly into the mixing desk.

Even with the addition of these extra channels you are only up to 8 mono feeds (2 singers mics, 1 mic for the guitar amp, 4 mics for the drum kit and 1 for your bass) plus as many stereo channels as the keyboards need. So a 12 channel mixer will give you all the channels you need for the first few years. By the time you come to need more channels and need to upgrade your mixer you should have the experience to know exactly what you need.

So I would buy a 12 or 16 channel desk. At this stage I would also look for one with built in digital effects so that you can add reverb etc to the vocals without needing a separate effects unit. I would also buy one with it's own small graphic EQ so that you can apply overall changes to the tone without I don't know how much one of these costs in Argentina, but here in the UK you should easily be able to get a 12 channel mixer like this for around $5-600. Then you will need monitor speakers so that the band can hear what's going on on stage. I'd suggest that you could get away with 4 monitors, 1 for each singer and the other two positioned so that you, the guitar and drummer could hear them. I would buy active monitors that have the amp built in to them (you could also go for small active PA cabs that can be turned on their side to act as floor monitors, with two of them placed either side of the stage as sidefill monitors). Having the amp built into them makes them easier to transport and set up, and takes the guesswork of matching amps away since the manufacturer has already done that for you. Once again, if you shop around you should be able to get a 150watt active monitor or PA cab for around 300 each, so that's $1200 for four of them.

For the main speakers, I would choose full range active speakers of around 400 wats each - same advantage of having the amp built in - there are many manufacturers but stuff such as JBL Eon or Mackie SRM450's can be found for between $1200-1500 per pair.

So, spend all your money on microphones and PA equipment, for $3000 plus the moey that the keyboard player saves from not having to buy his own amp you should be able to get a respectable PA system that will be fine for audiences up to around 200 people.

Thank you very much!!! I know samson and Behringer mixers are at a good afoordable price here, Like this one

MIXER Behringer Xenyx 1202 Fx
DeRemate.com.ar: CONSOLA DE SONIDO BEHRINGER XENYX 1002 FX OFERTA!!! - U$S 193.00

4 active monitors like thios one: Winco of 150 watts
DeRemate.com.ar: Parlante ACTIVO 8 Pulgadas * USB . MiC . 150W RMS ! - $ 674.99

PAIR MAIN SPEAKER Peavey Pv115
DeRemate.com.ar: Peavey Pv115 Bafle Con Parlantes De 15 Y Driver 1 Audio Pro - $ 1164.99

So there we have 1370 usd,....I will buy all the live sound equipment because I would like to keep for myself...I have 1200 usd to spend, but I can get the rest of the money

The only things I am missing are: Do I need a power amp??? How much do I have to spend in mics if I use 2 for the drums, and one for the guitar amp???? I think I can connect the gallien krueger amp to the PA so I don`t need another mic. We already have 2 mics for both singers.

[Jools4001]

Originally Posted by Music_for_life

The only things I am missing are: Do I need a power amp??? How much do I have to spend in mics if I use 2 for the drums, and one for the guitar amp???? I think I can connect the gallien krueger amp to the PA so I don`t need another mic. We already have 2 mics for both singers.

You will need a power amp if you go for those Peavy speakers because they are passive not active. It's the active bit that denotes the speaker has a built in amp, so you just need to plug an active speaker into the electricity supply and then feed it with a signal cable from your mixer.

A passive speaker might say it is 400W RMS, but that's just talking about the power it can handle - not what it produces, so yes, it will need a suitable power amp. Power amps are really good value at the moment and you can get a decent brand for very little money...something like a Crown XLS1500 will kick out 525 watts per channel into those 8 Ohm cabs which should be a good match for 400 Watt speakers. There is always the Crown XLS 1000 as well which puts out 375 Wpc into 8 Ohms which you might think is a better match because it won't be powerful enough to blow your speakers, but IMHO it's always better not to go mad with cranking your power amp to the max, so a 525 watt amp cruising along at 350 watts gives you more headroom and a cleaner sound than a 350 watt amp running flat out. Just don't go mad with the bigger amp and you should be fine.

A crown amp would go for something like $500 over here so you may be better off sticking to active speakers for the mains. That way you don't have to haul around separate components or worry about whether the power amp inside the speaker cab is a good match for the speaker drivers - the maker will have done that for you so it's just "plug in and go".

Apart from wanting to buy everything yourself, is their any reason why your budget has gone down?

You can put a PA rig together for that kind of money, but not one that I would trust entirely. The old adage that "you get what you pay for" is as true in this field as any other and in my opinion the Behringer is the weak link in the chain here. The only good thing about Behringer mixers is that they appear to offer a lot for the money, but they are built to a price. In general they are not very robust - the rehearsal studio my band uses has them in each rehearsal room as the house PA and they are a nightmare of broken channels, bad connectors and cheap scratchy controls. They just can't stand up to a different band plugging into them every night, and I can't imagine them lasting long on the road. For not a huge amount more cash you can up the game and start looking at small mixers from Yamaha, Mackie, Soundcraft....yes they are more expensive, but as my dad always used to say "Buy well, and buy once". The more robust semi-pro gear should last for ages if it's reasonably well looked after - My band uses a big Yamaha MG2414FX desk that's taking a bit of a break as we rehearse a new band, but has previously seen at least 5 years of gigging 2-3 times per week, that's a lot of load-ins, setup and tear downs and it's still in perfect working order....it's only semi-pro level but good value for what it is.

You won't need a big desk, just saying that manufacturers like Yamaha, Mackie etc will probably last you a lot longer that Behringer

[iriegnome]

Behringer??? CRAP.. Winco?? Never heard of it... IMHO, and I dont want to be a snob, but really. Get gear that will last. Pick up a Mackie FR1400 used for a couple hundred bucks. Or Stick with QSC PLX series. Yes, you will pay a little more, but well worth it.
Peavey is ok, but the JBL stuff is much better for the price. DBX Compressor and EQ's are good and not that expensive. IF you only need a small board, go with the Mackie CR-1604. Allen Heath puts out a similar pretty inexpensive board. Either will be perfect and they have much better preamps in them than most other boards at that size and price.
As for monitors, go with the Mackie SRM 350. A little more expensive, but way better preformance and much better quality. Do yourself a favor, do not cheap out on your gear. You spend good money on your bass equipment, why would you cheap out on your live PA gear

[iriegnome]

30 seconds of looking, I found Mackie SRM 450's for $300 each free shipping. Deals are all out there, you just have to look and shop.

[Jools4001]

Originally Posted by iriegnome

30 seconds of looking, I found Mackie SRM 450's for $300 each free shipping. Deals are all out there, you just have to look and shop.

Maybe you can in the states, but not in the UK. Even secondhand it would be extremely rare, if not impossible, to find SRM 450's for the equivalent of $300 each - even if you could they'd probably be beaten to hell. This is in the UK, let alone in Argentina where the OP comes from.

[bassplayer8953]

Originally Posted by iriegnome

30 seconds of looking, I found Mackie SRM 450's for $300 each free shipping. Deals are all out there, you just have to look and shop.

OP's in Argentina, so I doubt shipping from the US would be free.

But...to the OP: I would have a look around USA retailer sites, & price what it would cost to have some components shipped to you. I looked up a Behringer mixer similar to the one you listed, and it's waaaaay cheaper:

Behringer XENYX 1202FX Mixer: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

Our band uses a Behringer mixer & it does a decent job, but as others have pointed out, Behringers are not pro caliber. Ours sees 95% rehearsal work, and goes out to a gig once in a rare while.

Check the MF website:

Music Instruments and Professional Audio Equipment | 800-449-9128 | Musician's Friend

to see what they offer. You'll probably be able to find components to fit your budget. And if you want reviews of components before you buy from a continent away, somebody here has probably used virtually every brand & model you'll consider.

You may want to buy locally, but MF has quite a selection, & some pretty decent prices.