What cabinet can really reproduce sub-bass frequencies

[ianmatth]

In another thread, Knuckle_Head said:

The C#1 (34Hz) is not at appreciable volume levels through his cabinetry - I would suggest that even standard 40Hz E is diminished to the point of improminence. 17Hz is nonexistent out of his cab.

You can bend the rules of physics but they cannot be broken. Without outboard processing a dedicated sub capable of even 40Hz would have to be quite large - far larger than the Basson cabinet in question.

We have been lied to for decades about the capacities of our gear - if MI (musical instrument) cabinet builders were held to SR (sound reinforcement) standards we as musicians would be far better served.

I recently hooked my PJB Flightcase up to the Sub output of a Peavey Kosmos and it was clipping and "farting out" on the 12th fret E (which should have produced a subharmonic of the starndard low E at 41.2 Hz). Interestingly enough the low E (which should have produced a subharmonic of E0 at 20.6 Hz) wasn't doing that, but then again there was a significant reduction in volume. Through my Sennheiser headphones it sounded great for the most part, but it would sometimes "fart out" if I played too hard, so I'm sure it would sound great through a proper sub-woofer.

My PJB Flightcase is rated at 40 Hz, and it sounds awesome playing any 5-string tuned to drop A (27.5 Hz). I had also spoken about in the other thread how I had a Basson B410B that was rated at 28 Hz, I played the 12.98 Hz note from Garry Goodman's site (Round Wound Strings) through it, and myself as well as many others would say that we could feel it, but not hear it (although of course we could hear the overtones), and one guy said it felt like something was crawling in his ear.

So the question, especially for Knuckle_Head, who makes bass guitars and strings for sub-contra frequencies, what kind of cabinet or sub-woofer would one need to reproduce frequencies below 40 Hz in a live setting. And since plenty of bass players are using cabinets with magnets less than half the size of the Basson cabinet and seemingly not losing much, even when playing low B, F#0, or even C#0, what's really going on?

[Munjibunga]

[rockstarbassist]

Get a sub.

Kinda like this-
650-P : High-Power Subwoofer

[dbhokie]

Some subs will reproduce down to 15 hz and lower probably according to manufacturer claims. I personally would think it would affect the efficiency of the driver though if you are sending a lot of power to try and reproduce subsonic frequencies (that noone is even going to hear the fundamental of). I, personally would use a subsonic filter and cut out everything below the woofers capability and let people hear the harmonics and their brain translate it into the "subsonic" frequency, which will just end up the same thing anyways, just not with the same vibrations and "feelings".

If you are really intent on it, then be prepared to spend a crapton of money and have a speaker that weighs over 50-60 lbs in itself. Probably a very large box as well.

[dbhokie]

Originally Posted by rockstarbassist

Get a sub.

Kinda like this-
650-P : High-Power Subwoofer

I don't think the OP is unaware of subs, the sub you posted is not rated for the frequency range the OP wants. It is rated at a bottom of 28.

I would search around for a well built sub ($$$$) that is specs low enough, probably roll the subsonic frequencies only to it with a separate power amp, then send everything else to a different driver.

I could be very wrong but I don't think most subs built for that kind of bass (if there are hardly any), are very responsive or quick.

[rockstarbassist]

Originally Posted by dbhokie

I don't think the OP is unaware of subs, the sub you posted is not rated for the frequency range the OP wants. It is rated at a bottom of 28.

I would search around for a well built sub ($$$$) that is specs low enough, probably roll the subsonic frequencies only to it with a separate power amp, then send everything else to a different driver.

I could be very wrong but I don't think most subs built for that kind of bass (if there are hardly any), are very responsive or quick.

Lol good call. Get that Meyer sh!t outta here, huh? Next you'll probably recommend a JBL MRX or the like...

:facepalm:

[dbhokie]

Originally Posted by rockstarbassist

Lol good call. Get that Meyer sh!t outta here, huh? Next you'll probably recommend a JBL MRX or the like...

:facepalm:

AFAIK JBL produces nothing that would satisfy his needs, I have no idea who does, google may.

[dbhokie]

JL's fathom sub (they spec out) to reproduce as low as you want..

SVS has a home theater sub that will (supposedly)

The JL is around 3 grand

SVS around 2300

[ianmatth]

I took a look at that other thread again and Knuckle_Head was talking about home systems, and the SVS PB13-Ultra looks like it could handle 20 Hz pretty well. Other than that I guess it's car systems if the Basson 410 really can't handle it, but I have yet to give it a try so we'll have to wait and see. But since it sounds good through the headphones, I'd imagine it could at least record well.

Also, according to this (Bass instrument amplification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) most of the sound in large venues is coming from the PA system anyway.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

[fokof]

If you gig a lot , be prepared to:

- Buy a very big car
- Spend a lot of money
- Have major back problems
- Reduce the number of member in your band to make space for your sub on stage

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by rockstarbassist

Lol good call. Get that Meyer sh!t outta here, huh? Next you'll probably recommend a JBL MRX or the like...

:facepalm:

Meyer builds arguably the best PA loudspeaker systems available. Comparables are Claire Brothers and maybe EAW.

Here's a partial list of people who use Meyer Sound PAs on tour:

Ana Torroja
Andrea Bocelli
Andre Rieu
Anita Baker
Antonello Venditti
Avenged Sevenfold
Avril Lavigne
Barenaked Ladies
Billy Joel
Bloc Party
Blondie
Blue Öyster Cult
Bo Kasper
Bob Dylan
Britney Spears
Casting Crowns
Celine Dion
Celtic Woman
Dane Cook
Dave Koz
Dave Matthews Band
Deep Purple
de Palmas
Delta Goodrem
Depeche Mode
Diana Krall
Diana Ross
Dido
Dolly Parton
Dream Theatre
Erykah Badu
Estopa
Europe
Frank Zappa
Gabrielle
Gaither Vocal Band
Garou
Gotthard
Gyuto Monks
Herbert Grönemeyer
Herbie Hancock
Hilary Duff
Megadeth
Miguel Bose
Il Divo
John Legend & Corinne Bailey Rae
Jose Carreras
Juanes
Kanye West
Katie Melua
KC & the Sunshine Band
kd lang
KEM
Kirk Franklin
Kylie Minogue
Laith Al Deen
La Oreja de Van Gogh
Leonard Cohen
Les Paul
Loreena McKennitt
Los Lobos
Los Temerarios
Lou Reed
-M-
Mana
Manolo Garcia
Marco Antonio Solís
Marilyn Manson
Medeski Martin and Wood
Megadeth
Metallica
Michael Bublé
Morrissey
Mudvayne
Norah Jones
OV7
Luciano Pavarotti
Paramore
Paul Weller
Peter Maffay
Phil Lesh
Placebo
Placido Domingo
Prince
Ricky Martin
Robert Plant
Rod Stewart
Santana
Sarah McLachlan
Sezen Aksu
Sissel
Sisters in the Spirit
Slipknot
Snoop Dogg
Steely Dan
Stereophonics
Steve Miller
Stevie Wonder
Styx and REO Speedwagon
Sugababes
The Corrs
The Dead
The Enemy
The Grateful Dead
The Irish Tenors
The Magic Numbers
The Three Tenors
The Roots
The White Stripes
Three Days Grace
Tony Bennett
Tracy Chapman
Tragically Hip
Travis
Van Morrisson
Velvet Revolver
Willie Nelson
Udo Jurgens
Zazie

[ianmatth]

Originally Posted by fokof

If you gig a lot , be prepared to:

- Buy a very big car
- Spend a lot of money
- Have major back problems
- Reduce the number of member in your band to make space for your sub on stage

The Basson B410B was 148 pounds and not small, I could fit it in my Toyota Camry and put it in and take it out myself (actually that wasn't easy, but I actually have a power lifting record so I'm a pretty strong guy).

[chunger]

BASSMAXX - What you hear is TRUE. - Z 5000

Shared booth space with this guy at NAMM. . . if you need sub-bass consistent, uncolored, and LOUD. . . well, one of these was making people feel like puking the next 3 booths over.

Give 'em a call. It won't be cheap though. . . still, not rated down to the frequencies you are interested in. Probably touch on them, but in the fall-off area of the curve.

[dbhokie]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Meyer builds arguably the best PA loudspeaker systems available. Comparables are Claire Brothers and maybe EAW.

Here's a partial list of people who use Meyer Sound PAs on tour:

Ana Torroja
Andrea Bocelli
Andre Rieu
Anita Baker
Antonello Venditti
Avenged Sevenfold
Avril Lavigne
Barenaked Ladies
Billy Joel
Bloc Party
Blondie
Blue Öyster Cult
Bo Kasper
Bob Dylan
Britney Spears
Casting Crowns
Celine Dion
Celtic Woman
Dane Cook
Dave Koz
Dave Matthews Band
Deep Purple
de Palmas
Delta Goodrem
Depeche Mode
Diana Krall
Diana Ross
Dido
Dolly Parton
Dream Theatre
Erykah Badu
Estopa
Europe
Frank Zappa
Gabrielle
Gaither Vocal Band
Garou
Gotthard
Gyuto Monks
Herbert Grönemeyer
Herbie Hancock
Hilary Duff
Megadeth
Miguel Bose
Il Divo
John Legend & Corinne Bailey Rae
Jose Carreras
Juanes
Kanye West
Katie Melua
KC & the Sunshine Band
kd lang
KEM
Kirk Franklin
Kylie Minogue
Laith Al Deen
La Oreja de Van Gogh
Leonard Cohen
Les Paul
Loreena McKennitt
Los Lobos
Los Temerarios
Lou Reed
-M-
Mana
Manolo Garcia
Marco Antonio Solís
Marilyn Manson
Medeski Martin and Wood
Megadeth
Metallica
Michael Bublé
Morrissey
Mudvayne
Norah Jones
OV7
Luciano Pavarotti
Paramore
Paul Weller
Peter Maffay
Phil Lesh
Placebo
Placido Domingo
Prince
Ricky Martin
Robert Plant
Rod Stewart
Santana
Sarah McLachlan
Sezen Aksu
Sissel
Sisters in the Spirit
Slipknot
Snoop Dogg
Steely Dan
Stereophonics
Steve Miller
Stevie Wonder
Styx and REO Speedwagon
Sugababes
The Corrs
The Dead
The Enemy
The Grateful Dead
The Irish Tenors
The Magic Numbers
The Three Tenors
The Roots
The White Stripes
Three Days Grace
Tony Bennett
Tracy Chapman
Tragically Hip
Travis
Van Morrisson
Velvet Revolver
Willie Nelson
Udo Jurgens
Zazie

I believe he was being sarcastic towards me. I don't hate on Meyer at all, I was just telling him that their subs are not rated to go down as far as Knuckles wants...hardly any are.

[staindbass]

any major name prosound dual 18" cab will give you what you want. i use four evx 180b speakers in custom made cabinets made for me by ampeg. most bassists do not know what its like to be immersed in a 30 hz "bass bath" that you can feel from your hair to your feet with good fidelity. modern prosound 18" drivers are not slow. cheap ones sound slow because with the cone materials they use, it needs to be heavier to handle the stress and doesnt react as fast.

[rockstarbassist]

Originally Posted by dbhokie

I believe he was being sarcastic towards me. I don't hate on Meyer at all, I was just telling him that their subs are not rated to go down as far as Knuckles wants...hardly any are.

winrar

[Stumbo]

How about Bag End:
PROFESSIONAL LOUDSPEAKER SYSTEMS
Enclosure:
18 mm 13-ply birch plywood

Low Frequency Transducers:
2 - 18" INFRA cone
3" Voice coil
12O oz. Magnet

Internal Amplification:
1-Minima One

Grille:
16 Gauge black vinyl coated
perforated steel

Standard Hardware:
8 - Machined aluminum speaker
mounting clamps

Optional Hardware:
Rigging points

System Type:
2-Infrasub sealed chambers
(3 cu. ft. each)

Input:
10K Ohms Balanced XLR input
with loop through

Input CAL Sensitivity:
+4 dBu

System Power:
1000 W. continuous

Frequency Response:
60 Hz to 250 Hz +/-3 dB
w/external Infra Integrator
8 Hz to 95 Hz +/-3 dB

Hi Pass Filter Frequency Switchable:
-6dB @ 8 Hz, @ 50 Hz, @ 95 Hz

Crossover Network:
Requires external INFRA Integrator
for 8 Hz Response

Maximum Acoustic Output:
Half Space @ 1 Meter
10 Hz - 97 dBSPL
20 Hz - 109 dBSPL
40 Hz - 121 dBSPL
80 Hz - 130 dBSPL

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by dbhokie

I believe he was being sarcastic towards me. I don't hate on Meyer at all, I was just telling him that their subs are not rated to go down as far as Knuckles wants...hardly any are.

Excuse me. Meyer Sound built the subs for the "Brown Note" episode of Mythbusters. The cabs produced 5 hz at 108 dB. Then they tried 7 hz, then 9 hz, then 30 hz. They then swept the frequency from 20 to 100 hz at 154dB.

BTW, no poop.

[dbhokie]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Excuse me. Meyer Sound built the subs for the "Brown Note" episode of Mythbusters. The cabs produced 5 hz at 108 dB. Then they tried 7 hz, then 9 hz, then 30 hz. They then swept the frequency from 20 to 100 hz at 154dB.

BTW, no poop.

Pardon me, then, I was just looking at the one that was linked. Brown Note episode, that sounds interesting. I don't believe you, I bet it was fecal.