What components affect your tone most?

[wolffman]

there are millions and millions of combinations of gear to change your tone...

Under the assumption ones signal chain is running:
bass> pre amp> power amp> speakers
(i love effects and they do a WHOLE BUNCH for tone- but thats opening a whole other can o' worms)

if tone = 100% what percentage do these compenents have on affecting your tone?

An example of what I mean-
Strings- 10%
Pick Up Style- 20%
Pick Up Placement- 10%
Body Wood- 4%
Neck Wood- 1%
Pre Amp- 20%
Power Amp- 15%
Speakers/Cab- 20%

What are your thoughts?

[jvollrath]

The Hands = 100%

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by jvollrath

The Hands = 100%

beat me to it!

[groooooove]

Originally Posted by jvollrath

The Hands = 100%

in a way, yeah. hands are a huge part of it- i've been told in a number of differnt ways that people can tell immidiately if its my playing on a recording- weather its old stuff and i had carvin basses and GK amps, or now with my very botique everything-hand-made-to-perfection basses into walter woods heads and custom brickhouse cabinets. ive noticed it too, the way i strike the stings always has "my" vibe. be that good or bad, well, i dont know.

but that being said- ever see the part of the modern electric bass video when jaco plays that custom fretless with the neck pickup turned up? is it still jacos playing..yes. is it really his tone though? not at all..

so i'd say, hands regardless of everything else are easily about 30% of the sound. next would be pickup placement, probably another 30%- you cant deny, where the pickup is on the string is the deciding factor between a p-bass, or jaco's bridge pickup sound. the remaining 40% would be hard to decide- like, i was about to type that amp/cabs are like 10% of the sound but- what if youve got a dirty ass all the way up tube amp, vs a walter woods? flats vs rounds.. fretless or fretted..ext.

theres too many variables to come up with an accurate way to chop it all up. then once you intoruduce effects all of this goes out the window anyway.

[brendanbassist]

Originally Posted by jvollrath

The Hands = 100%

As much as I'd love to to believe this, I don't. If I go into a music store, and play 3 different basses on 3 different amps, they sound different, even though I'm using the same hands all 3 times.

[Studiodawg]

I let my fingers do the talkin'...

[SixString]

Originally Posted by brendanbassist

As much as I'd love to to believe this, I don't. If I go into a music store, and play 3 different basses on 3 different amps, they sound different, even though I'm using the same hands all 3 times.

+1

Plus I've nailed PLENTY of other bass players TONES with my own hands. Sometimes I think people on here tend to be a little over dramatic, for lack of a better word when they say the only way to get some bass players tones is to have their hands

[wolffman]

yes i know its truely all in the player. practice practice practice. the hands have a huge affect on tone but its a copout to this question. if that were the case there wouldn't be thousands of differtent choices of eqiupment. if one was attempting to get a very deep dubby tone i doubt they couldnt do it playing the bridge pu of a jazz bass through a vox guitar amp. gear def makes a difference. maybe the proper answer is the percentage is different for each player

[GregShadoan]

I would go with 80% hands(fingers)
20% equipment.
No matter what gear I play, people have told me they recognized my playing from the street, before they even know it was me on stage. IME.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by GregShadoan

I would go with 80% hands(fingers)
20% equipment.
No matter what gear I play, people have told me they recognized my playing from the street, before they even know it was me on stage. IME.

+1, except i'd give the gear about 10%.

i see a lot of you folks totally misunderstand the "all in the hands" thing. of course a hofner beatle bass sounds different from a modulus. but most of us have a sound we hear in out head and we try to get similar sounds out of all the gear we use regardless of what it is. i know i certainly do. and if jaco wasn't just trying out jerry jemmott's bass in that vid but using it on a gig, he would have done it as well.

plus you give my bass and amp to someone else and they're going to sound way more like themselves than they will me. i've heard it a million times, and without fail, people who use my stuff sound nothing like me and vice versa. my band rents equipment when we do travel gigs. sometimes it's what we want, sometimes it's crap, sometimes it's ok but not what we want. and yet when we start playing, we sound way more similar to what we sound like on our own gear than different, and this happens at every single gig.

plus i have a real problem with giving the equipment credit for all the hard work i put into learning how to play. maybe you guys have no problem with that, but i busted my ass to learn all this stuff, and i'll be damned if i'll give the credit to my gear. so you guys can keep fooling yourselves and thinking it's all about the equipment. but it isn't. not at all. if i couldn't play the equipment i own or anything even close to it ever again, i would still sound the same. do i like my stuff? of couse i do. but my equipment doesn't define me as a player...i define what it sounds like like, not vice versa.

[ga_edwards]

It seems to me the line is blurred between tone and phrasing/style, both of which contribute to a players 'sound' (for want of a better word).

Yes I think a persons playing style influences the actual sound or tone itself, the pressure they strike the string, where they strike the string, their vibrato, how they mute etc.

But actual, physical tone? I'm not so sure. I mean, if I was to play *insert famous bassists name here* gear I wouldn't sound exactly like them. The general tone may be similar as it's the same gear, but you'd be able to tell it's not them playing because the phrasing is different. Likewise if they played my gear.

Take for example someone known for playing different gear over the years. Eric Clapton, he used to play Gibsons and then changed to strats. His tone was different, but you could tell it was him from his phrasing and style.

If it really is the case than tone is all in the hands, then discussions about classic P bass tone, or J tone, or MM tone is all moot, since they will sound completely different in different players hands.

I think clarification is needed between 'tone' and 'sound'. One must be the physical sound produced from an instrument through a particular amplifier, and one must be the sum of the whole that includes the player.

As always, IMHO. Good discussion though.

[fokof]

"What components affect your tone most?"

Skin/brain combo

[fokof]

Originally Posted by ga_edwards

I think clarification is needed between 'tone' and 'sound'.

+1
For me , tone is "my" phrasing , musical knowledge , chops , repertoire , taste , etc.... and sound is what gets out of the FOH.
(please note that I haven't said amp or monitor)

[Ric5]

A big part of my tone is my pedal board.



1 - First I run into an equalizer

2 - Then I split the signal into 4 parallel signals with a rolls mixer.

3 - I run one of the parallel lines into the Line6 bass pod where I model an acoustic 360 with a rat or big muff distortion pedal. I use this to get a retro growlly distorted sound. Or I also model an Ampeg fliptop with the Rat Distortion pedal. And I also Model an old Marshall amp. With the bass pod I can get a wide range of clean or dirty sounds and various effects and model different amps and speaker cabinets.

4 - The second parallel signal goes into a MXR bass di+. I use this pedal to get a clean modern sound. It also has a distortion button that can give a moderate to extreme amount of modern distortion.

5 - The third parallel signal goes into a Marshall Guv'nor. This gives me an old 60s marshall stack sound. This can go from a small amount of distortion to an over the top marshall sound. This effect can give you a Chris Squire Yes sound or a heavy metal sound, or just a subtle amount of distortion.

6 - The fourth parallel signal goes into a Tech21 VT Bass pedal. With this effect I get a slightly dirty Ampeg SVT bass amp sound with a tube like growl.

7 - Then I remix the 4 signals back together and run it into a bass amp, or pa, or studio mixer. Because the signals are parallel I can mix clean and overdriven sounds together and still get effect and a sound that punches through the mix.

Sound byte with a 5 string fenderbird http://www.3dentourage.com/425/effects-fenderbird-1.mp3

Sound bytes for each effect isolated using a 5 string jazz bass. http://www.3dentourage.com/425/white-jazz-5.htm

Schematic diagram of my effects.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

but my equipment doesn't define me as a player...i define what it sounds like like, not vice versa.

+1
Couldn't said it better

[insain]

what i ate before the gig usually effects me the most

[wolffman]

ga_edwards - I think you were able to articulate what I was unable to. I'm speaking solely of "tone" in the sense of striking a single note. Playing a scale straight up. Not the phrasing and technique that makes each of us different.

JimmyM- ” of course a hofner beatle bass sounds different from a modulus. but most of us have a sound we hear in out head and we try to get similar sounds out of all the gear we use regardless of what it is. i know i certainly do.”

This is an important point as well. Having “that” tone in your head and trying to get similar sounds out of it is understandable. But sometimes you might choose a P-Bass over a J-Bass because it’s the right tool for the job. You will still “sound” like the same player- BUT your "tone" has changed.

Someone with all of the most expensive woodworking tools and no knowledge could not build a beautiful bass. And a master luthier could build a great bass with some mediocre tools. But having the knowledge and applying it- choosing the right tool is a skill in itself.

Sometimes you might want to change your amp, cab, or your bass to get that desired “tone” in your head- without changing your overall “sound”


I don’t think by giving gear credit for tone is by any means undermining your hard work learning the instrument.

A chili pepper, cayenne pepper, and habanero pepper are all spicy, they all taste somewhat similar- but a masterful chef will know when to use which pepper to use create the dish in their head- the nuances may be minute- but there ARE differences.

[wolffman]

a different example of "tone" 3 year old flat wounds vs right out of the package roundwounds. i dont care if you've got "hands of gold" your not going to get the same tone out of the same set up. can you still make it "sound" great? OF COURSE. But i'm speaking of the inherent "tone" of the equipment.