Who's job is it?

DirtPoorRobins · #1 08-22-2010, 12:01 PM

During a show, who's job is it to mix tunes of varying styles, the FOH soundman, or the musicians. What i mean is, if we are playing a current RnB tune that is all Bass synth and drums, its going to be mixed totally different then when we play sweet home alabama. Or Don't stop believing is keyboard central, so is it the musicians job to ride their volumes and eq that the songs call for, or the FOH? (we have a full time sound guy that can be at rehearsals as well, so he knows all of our tunes).

Rico_2212 · #2 08-22-2010, 12:10 PM

It's everyone's job. A competent soundman is only as good as the band he's working with and vice-versa. If everybody has their sound together and doesn't screw around with their eq and volume levels in the middle of a set, there shouldn't be a problem. If you use more than one sound, try to make sure that just because your sound changes your volume levels don't. Your soundman will love you.

modulusman · #3 08-22-2010, 12:11 PM

Both. A band that pays attention to what they are doing onstage will make the soundmans job easier. IMO the main job of the soundman once he is able to get the instruments to sit in the mix is to adjust the volume levels as needed.

JimmyM · #4 08-22-2010, 12:21 PM

agreed. both bear equal responsibility.

fokof · #5 08-22-2010, 12:30 PM

Both

If you have Digital boards (FOH and Monitors) and you can do a couple of weeks of rehersals with that setup (pre-production) than it's more on the hands of the soundman (let's say 60-40) as he can make a "mix" for each songs and just recall it.
But if it's one nighters on normal setups , then it's in the hand of the band mostly (90-10) as the soundman can't do a complete different mix/EQ/etc between each songs.

In general , say 99% of gigs , it's mostly in the hands of the band. In a realistic world , a soundman will follow the puck and make adjustments but he can't make a complete different mix without any amount of preparation.
As a musician can't play a song properly without hearing it first or learning it.

knarleybass · #6 08-22-2010, 12:36 PM

I think you gotta be proactive

DirtPoorRobins · #7 08-22-2010, 12:42 PM

Yeah, our soundman can be at every rehearsal every day, so he can know our songs just as well as we do. So what most of you are saying is that if one song is all Bass and Drums, then our stage volume should reflect getting much louder if we want the FOH to be a lot louder as well?

Jimbob Jones · #8 08-22-2010, 12:51 PM

A pet peeve of mine (when I'm doing PA) is when the drummer only taps the kick lightly during quiet songs; it just ruins the sound IMO.

IME a band should have vibrant dynamics, but it's the sound man's job to put the lead instrument/singer over the rest of the band if it changes.

JimmyM · #9 08-22-2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtPoorRobins

Yeah, our soundman can be at every rehearsal every day, so he can know our songs just as well as we do. So what most of you are saying is that if one song is all Bass and Drums, then our stage volume should reflect getting much louder if we want the FOH to be a lot louder as well?

i don't recommend making abrupt changes. i also recommend using dynamics instead of volume controls when possible. but yeah, i'll definitely goose my stage volume a tiny bit if the song calls for it and the drummer will hit harder.

fokof · #10 08-22-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbob Jones

A pet peeve of mine (when I'm doing PA) is when the drummer only taps the kick lightly during quiet songs; it just ruins the sound IMO.

Can't agree less.
You want a drummer to kick hard during a ballad ? I don't get it.....

If the kick is causing trouble during a ballad , remove the gate.

singlemalt · #11 08-22-2010, 01:02 PM

Both parties are responsible, and if you have a good sound check it should be no problem. Having your own sound guy mix is great, if he respects and works with the house guy (who might own and be responsible for $$$$ worth of house gear. No, your stoner buddy cant set his beer on the board and twiddle knobs). Your guy knows what's coming and can bring up levels for you. Or its your PA and he knows it and runs it every time.

But let's get real, they throw your stuff up there, you get a line check, (maybe) and your off to the races! Its mostly on you! Once your stage volume creeps up, or if you just plain insist on your backline being super loud, or your drummer is a moron who only plays loud and louder...the sound guy can only do so much. And if you can't wrap your heads around the concept, he'll most likely stop trying and head out for a smoke. That's why that feedback won't go away...

If you hit the sound guy with a surprise peak, you better be lucky and hope that he's: standing at the board, paying attention, and isn't fed up with your schtick.

Almost always, the first culprit in the bad sound scenario is too much volume on stage from the band. If someone asks you to turn up a bit, you are on the right track.

JimmyM · #12 08-22-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fokof

Can't agree less.
You want a drummer to kick hard during a ballad ? I don't get it.....

If the kick is causing trouble during a ballad , remove the gate.

lol!

i have to agree with this. i like dynamics, and part of that is hitting the drums with varying velocities. might make it harder to mix if the bass drum is too quiet, but you also have to realize that they're going for a sound as well as a volume, and it would sound really odd to have the basketball on a wood floor ac/dc bass drum attack on "daddy's home."

Stanley Pugh · #13 08-22-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

agreed. both bear equal responsibility.

+1

walker rosewood · #14 08-22-2010, 04:42 PM

imho, stage volume should be as quiet as you can tolerate at all times. Let the PA do the work. Making changes to stage volume in the middle of a set ticks off sound engineers like crazy. As mentioned, dynamics are a different story.

...anyway, in response to the question like everybody has said, it's both. Communication is key between the band and the engineer, particularly when you work with the same guy all the time. Let them no what you're going for.

Almost every week I do sound for the same cover band. I definitely try my best to know the material, listen to the originals, and mix according to the genre of music. The band ranges from 50's music, to disco, to country, to rap, and modern pop. For example the guitar is up front when the play Kiss, but not during the Black Eyed Peas. There are many other examples. Sometimes I'll even make slight EQ changes based on genre too, mostly on the kick drum--rock sound versus rap songs.

DirtPoorRobins · #15 08-22-2010, 05:29 PM

Walker...... so you are making adjustments for different tunes, levels, and even eq it sounds like. Could/should our soundman just make presets for each song on our digital board?

duderasta · #16 08-22-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtPoorRobins

Walker...... so you are making adjustments for different tunes, levels, and even eq it sounds like. Could/should our soundman just make presets for each song on our digital board?

theoretically yes, in practice every room is different and it will be reflected in the mix... I don't have much experience with digital boards for live sound, but what I always did was keep lots of notes.
I kept notes for the PA when we used ours and for the backline too. A big time saver to have some baseline settings recorded for different venues.

DirtPoorRobins · #17 08-22-2010, 05:42 PM

Ok how about this question. Does U2's sound engineer come to rehearsal and takes notes on everything they want to do, and the sound they want on each song?

AMJBASS · #18 08-22-2010, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fokof

As a musician can't play a song properly without hearing it first or learning it.

That would be news to a lot of people who come up to the band during a set asking if we can play _____________

Jimbob Jones · #19 08-22-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fokof

Can't agree less.
You want a drummer to kick hard during a ballad ? I don't get it.....

If the kick is causing trouble during a ballad , remove the gate.

Don't use (that is, don't own

) gates.

Maybe it's just the style of music, but IME you EQ the kick to sound fat and punchy (but not obtrusive) during the fast songs, then when the drummer backs off for a slow one it just ends up sounding like someone hitting a shoe box with a wooden spoon.

If the drummer just keeps on smacking the kick, you drop it a little in the mix and it still sounds great, without walking all over the song.

Of course, YMMV.

JimmyM · #20 08-22-2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtPoorRobins

Ok how about this question. Does U2's sound engineer come to rehearsal and takes notes on everything they want to do, and the sound they want on each song?

i'm sure he does. if i were getting paid what he's probably making (i'd say at least 6 figures), i certainly would. they probably rehearsed for 2 weeks in a stadium or large arena, too.

however, not all of us have that luxury, so we try to do a lot of that on our own without having to rely on the soundman to do it.