Why guitards EQ in too much low end

[totallyfrozen]

My vote goes to #3.

I do EQ alot of low end into my guitar sound. That's because personally, I play jazz more than anything else on the guitar. I use a clean sound and jazz style guitar typically has a warm, low tone to it.
I wonder if the ego trips and that type of stuff aren't mostly with the younger players who are mostly into Rock. I could be wrong, I guess.
I think that maybe alot of the more mature (not necessarily older) players understand the separation of frequencies and their job in the band.
I used to play in a blues-based rock band and our guitarist was very egotistical; however, he didn't walk on the bass player. He knew where his guitar belonged in the mix. I was the keyboard player in that group and, if anything, I probably walked on everyone else's turf the most.

I had a set up with 2 keyboards set to different voices and I played them simultaneously...so while I may have dipped into the bass's zone or the guitarist's zone, I was playing a different SOUND so it wasn't meant to detract from what they were doing. Often times, keyboards are played mostly as a filler to fatten the sound and give it some texture. So sometimes the keys dip into the freqs of others but don't wash the other guy away. I may play in the guitarist's frequencies but I'm playing a violin/strings pad or an organ so it doesn't hide the guitar.
BTW, I'm talking about playing live in a bar setting; not recording.

[Jaydin Nathan]

I guarantee it's got nothing to do with ego why they EQ so much low end into their tone. It's the same as keyboard players who play octaves below with their left hand. They practice like that because it fills out the sound, and what they practice will come out when they play with the band.
The ego comes into the equation when someone tells them to please not play octaves/EQ so much low end in, and they turn around and tell you it's 'their style/tone.'

[David1234]

A lot of people try and make their instrument sound like a whole band. Fat and full and huge like a sumo wrestler.

Then you put that sound in a mix and it's like 4 sumo wrestlers trying to come through a door at the same time... not pretty.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by David1234

A lot of people try and make their instrument sound like a whole band. Fat and full and huge like a sumo wrestler.

Then you put that sound in a mix and it's like 4 sumo wrestlers trying to come through a door at the same time... not pretty.

Props, David. That's about the most effective visualization of the situation that I have ever seen stated. That's exactly what it's like.

[MNAirHead]

I worship our guitar player.. he's old tenured and well thought out.

He's always commented on a few things....

1-Guitar players try to use gear to fix bad playing (so do bass players)
2-Few Guitar players really can hear their amps (long sound story why)
3-Guitarists focus on what's in front .. not the glue holding a band together..... commonly they hear themselves as 1/2 of what's going on.. not a portion of the overall sound.
4-Like bass players, they often look at "watts" and box sizes - not what it takes to sound good in a band mix... my favored guys use 15-45 watt amps - they all love a Marshall 800 - they hate carrying them and can't dial them in without the attenuator.


I've yet to know a guitar player who would fathom going direct, recording their practice or rehearse with a drum machine.

I'll play with a bad player who listens any day over a dude who over plays and cranks it.

Tim

[totallyfrozen]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

...3-Guitarists focus on what's in front .. not the glue holding a band together..... commonly they hear themselves as 1/2 of what's going on.. not a portion of the overall sound...Tim

I see another #3 that I like!
Speaking of the "glue" holding a band together...
Here's something that I was told by my guitar/bass teacher as well as several other musicians.
"The bass player is the leader of the band"
I know that EVERYONE wants to think they are the leader of the band; but the point was that while the dummer is keeping time and the keys and guitars are playing melodies and harmonies, the bass is doing BOTH--keeping time and playing harmony. The bass player guides the chord changes. OK, sure, so you've rehearsed together and you all know the songs so no one thinks they need someone to guide the song, right? They already know it. Well, if the bass player decided to play something else, it would throw off the whole song.
My teacher put it this way, "As a bass player, you have control of the song. If you play the wrong thing, you'll make the GUITAR player sound bad; not you!" That's because people's ears follow the drums and the bass in the song (subconciously) as the foundation. They think the drums and bass are always right.
And when you think about it, that old stereotype about "the bass should be felt and not heard" doesn't take away from the bassist at all. If you play the bass line differently (and most people don't KNOW the bass line already anyway), then they are going to FEEL you and think the guitar is wrong. The bass controls the song: the mood, the chord changes, the tempo (with the drummer).

So there! NOW you know why your strings are bigger!

[nodestiny]

Originally Posted by jimb213

I bet some of it has to do with trying to re-create what they hear on records, and not realizing how much the bass contributes to that awesome "guitar" tone.

You know, I have no doubt on this one. My guitarist wants to be Dimebag Darryl in the way of sound. Always says how he get's the Dimebag sound if he drops the mids and cranks the low/high. Wonder if I can find some master tracks to the guitars to show him what they sound like by themselves...

[claytitan]

derekd,

You wrote...

"If this is a problem you have in your band, why not ask the guitarist? (I have done this, but he is not listening). Pulling in a thread from another blog to bash a guitar player you don't play with seems odd. (If this is the oddest thing I ever do I am in great shape!) IF you do have that issue, then I would suggest recording rehearsal/performances as a possible solution" (done this also)

I am sure many of us bass players have had this discussion with the band guitarist. I have. The problem is getting them to listen. That is why I was checking the internet. I am trying to figure out how to fix this! Sadly, there may be no cure for this guitarist. My guitarist is a good player and a good guy. His tone just sucks. Especially in a band setting.

[Marley's Ghost]

Originally Posted by claytitan

D

Very profound. Post of the year material.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by Marley's Ghost

Very profound. Post of the year material.

I'll say...

Took a good look at my guitarist's Peavey combo at last Sunday's rehearsal....bass was cranked to 10, I kid you not. I had him dial back to 2 despite his passive protests.

Riis

[Steve]

Guitards boost the low end for the same reason bass players cut the mids.

It sounds better in the living room when they're by themselves.