Wireless issue...need help!

[Slpbass81]

I'm currently playing in a hard rock band that consist of 2 guitarist, drummer, singer and keyboards. We play a lot of big venues so I have a Fender American Jazz Bass running through an Ampeg Classic & Ampeg 8x10. Problem I'm having is I have the Shure PGX-14 wireless unit, but with the passive pickups I loose all my sound and tone once I go wireless.

Questions is, if I get a Sansamp Bass DI will that help me crank my noise/tone back up?

[ajunea3]

Once you suck out your tone, there's no getting it back. I doubt any sort of pedal/DI will help you. Maybe you just need a better wireless? One that doesn't suck you tone? Fight the problem from the source.

[walterw]

line 6 relay digital wireless; full bandwidth, no companding like all analog wireless uses, so no tone suck.

[Jimbob Jones]

+1

Sell the PGX to your guitarist, he won't notice the tone difference.

[ric stave]

Before ditching the system, try different settings on the gain/pad on the pack itself.

[doctorpunch]

^^^^ Exactly. A lot of people don't realize there's a lot of tone shapiong settings in the receiver pack. Also, if you have a high/low signal strength switch on the pack set it to low. Unless you plan on running outside for some air during your set you don't need to stretch out your sound.

[Eric Moesle]

Many of the wireless systems (not all, just many of them) do not transmit extremely low frequencies. Some of them cut off at 50hz. Perfectly fine for a guitar, but for a bass that is much of the "beef" in your tone.

Check the specs of your wireless unit. If it doesn't go down to 30hz, then you'll need to replace it if the tone-suck is bothering you.

[Jimbob Jones]

The Shure PGX's frequency response is 50Hz-15k IIRC.

Some people have reported good results with nothing below 50Hz in their tone, but I guess in a big, loud rock band, you need that extra 'oomph'.

Personally, I would definitely feel more comfortable knowing that I can boost 50Hz and below if I need to!

[Slpbass81]

I'm not that knowledgable about frequency response. So the Line 6 models are saying the frequency range is 10Hz-20kHz...how does that compare to my current wireless.

[walker rosewood]

10hz (hertz) is 40hz lower then 50hz

20khz (kilo hertz) is 5khz higher then 15khz.

In other words its got a much wider range.

The fundamental frequency of a low E note on a bass is around 41hz, and a low B is around 30hz. Your wireless is cutting off anything below 50hz, which is why you lose all your sound and tone.

[walker rosewood]

further explanation-- are you familiar with the harmonic series? aka overtones? When you play a note, your not just hearing that one frequency, you hear a bunch of higher frequencies in a specific pattern also. So if you play that E, you hear 41hz, but also 82 Hz, 123Hz, 164Hz, and so on.

In general when you play a low E, the human ear hears more of that 82hz then the 41hz, and even when you're completely missing the 41, your brain may fill it in for you-- but you'll probably notice a difference in perceived "tone" and volume.

Do a forum search, or google if you're further interested.

[Jimbob Jones]

In short, it blows it out of the water.

The lowest note human ears can hear is 20Hz (although you can 'feel' lower frequencies)

The highest frequency human ears can hear is 20kHz, but most people can't hear above 15; and if you've ever heard a 15kHz test tone, I can almost gaurentee that you wouldn't want anything that high in your bass's sound.

The low B string of a 5 string resonates at (roughly) 32Hz; but most of the 'bass' in a bass guitar's signal occurs between 80 and 120Hz. Anything below that is more 'meat' than 'note'. Bottom E on a 4 string is 40Hz, but what you mainly hear when you pluck the string is 80Hz, the second harmonic. That said, if you whip everything below 50Hz out of your bass signal, you'll notice it, a lot.

A lot of what wireless does to your bass's signal isn't to do with the low frequencies though; in fact Sennheiser released a wireless system tailored specifically for bass a couple of years back, which had a roll off at 50Hz. With the exception of the new Line6 system, all wireless instrument packs (and microphones) compound, fold up, compress, squash and generally mangle your signal before it's sent across the airwaves, then do their best to unpack it at the end. The line6 system is digital, so doesn't do anything to your signal other than digitise it before transmitting it (it does this at higher than CD quality, so no worries there). This means that all of that tricky packing/unpacking malarkey just isn't necessary, and leaves you with a much better signal, and (IMO) a much better wireless system in general.

EDIT: well, walker beat me to it, and put it more concisely! But never mind, if you can be bothered to read my babble I'm sure there's something useful in there somewhere!

[walker rosewood]

well said Jimbob. Haha, I think between the two of us we made sense.

I've never had a wireless system (although most of the bands I work with do), because for me they've always been an unnecessary luxury. I generally play on small stages, and don't meander too much. Plus I've been worried about sound quality and they've always been like $600 for a decent one.

Not to derail this into a Line 6 info thread...but anybody else who has one want to comment on the sound quality, construction, etc? I notice the instrument system is only $130 online.

Also, anybody try the vocal mic version? I read they include digital modeling of the popular mics (58's, 835's, etc). Do they really reject all interference and cross talk?

[JimiLL]

The Line 6 (now X2) is a fabulous system.

I have the rack mount model and play only 5 strings.... absolutely no difference in tone cable to wireless.

I think someone did a test on here some time ago and found that the signal never dropped more than .3 db from 10-20khz.

Thats phenominal. No one can touch it yet

[Jimbob Jones]

My church is looking into getting the mic system so we demo'd one for a week. It was great. Using the beta58 preset, it sounded essentially the same as the real thing with a direct A/B comparison; the wired mic had slightly better feedback rejection, but the feedback rejection on a 58b is fantastic anyway.

I couldn't comment on crosstalk, as we only tried one out, but it's a digital system, so it can fit 12 channels into one wireless band. It uses completely different tech to any other wireless system, so I would guess that crosstalk (and maybe interference too) are just pushed out of the picture.

I hadn't heard the .3dB thing before and you're right, that is phenominal! I really want to pick one of these things up for my rig...new amp first though.

[walker rosewood]

hmm curious... it appears Shure has just introduced their answer to line 6. Digital wireless from Shure:
http://www.shure.com/americas/news-e...gital-wireless

Not cheap though, $430 on musicians friend for the instrument setup. 20hz-20k.

[Jimbob Jones]

Hmm, I smell a (marketing) rat...'True Diversity' isn't needed with digital wireless AFAIK; it's like putting wheels on 20lb bass cab...completely pointless.

That said, it looks intruiging! Interesting how they've only released the tech into their PGX range, and not into any of their 'pro' products. One would hope that they're testing the waters with this, then they'll launch a full pro system, parallel to their UR range.

Having tried digital wireless, I have to say that I think it's the way forward. It just removes all the headache that you normally take for granted with wireless systems.

[walker rosewood]

I found it odd that they didn't give it a new name. Just tacked a D on to the PGX.

[JimiLL]

Originally Posted by walker rosewood

hmm curious... it appears Shure has just introduced their answer to line 6. Digital wireless from Shure:
http://www.shure.com/americas/news-e...gital-wireless

Not cheap though, $430 on musicians friend for the instrument setup. 20hz-20k.

Doesnt look anywhere near as cool as X2 and a little expensive to boot

[Rockmusician]

I have a Sennheiser wireless and don't seem to have this problem. Maybe you should look at other wireless systems.