Would I be better off buying a mic or a DI box?

zachoff · #1 08-06-2010, 08:51 PM

I play a '76 SVT through a '78 810. My SVT doesn't have a direct out. I've played one show where I've been mic'd and one where I carried the house. I have two more gigs coming up where I'll be mic'd... Just wondering if it's worthwhile to get a DI or my own mic. I recorded with an Audix D4 & direct split about 70/30 and love how that ended up sounding.

JimmyM · #2 08-06-2010, 11:19 PM

it doesn't hurt to have your own di. most venues with pa will have one, but not all of them do speaker level di, which is the bomb if you have an svt. countryman di's and radial jdi and jdv do it. it's brighter than micing but not as annoyingly bright as plugging straight in. and i did buy my own mic, too, though i'm going to just do a vt deluxe di for a while and see if i can live without micing.

one problem i've run into with doing mic and di is getting the second line. and even if i get it, a fair amount of them end up turning the mic off anyway. they figure you'll never know the difference, i guess. but i check. oh yes, i do.

another big problem has been resistance to the mic. i've had a handful of soundmen give me stick over it. not a problem if your band owns the pa or is hiring the sound company directly but it's caused problems for me before. wussies. so they may have to eq it a little...big deal.

anyway, if you're only using pa once in a while and it's always rented or hired out, they always have a di and mics so it may not be worth it to you to make the investment for a handful of gigs. but if you play more than a handful of gigs and/or you supply your own pa, you might want to get a di and/or mic of your own. there's ways to get the sound of the svt out there in pretty much any price range. even a not-so-expensive di blended with a 57 or 58 sounds really good for live work.

MNAirHead · #3 08-07-2010, 10:24 PM

without more info.. DI

zachoff · #4 08-08-2010, 10:34 AM

We probably won't ever have to supply a PA for any gigs outside of vocals. Both the guitarist and I's rigs are loud and our drummer doesn't have mics. We'll probably be playing every month or two as far as I can tell & most places we play will have us mic'd (with their mics). I just wonder because the last time we played the sound guy asked if I had a DI & seemed put off that I didn't. He mic'd me with a 58 & it sounded pretty good but not as good as the Audix I recorded with.

taurus1 · #5 08-08-2010, 01:17 PM

the ultimate is to have both. but I'd rather go direct than just mic. micing a loud bass amp isn't as easy as guitar. it's more difficult to capture the full range of the bass signal.

GregShadoan · #6 08-08-2010, 01:18 PM

I always prefer to do both.
Reason 1. If nothing else I have a back up.
2. Usually the DI and the mic sounds are different. Sometimes varying wildly, and with both you can blend the two sounds to taste.
3. Even if your amp has a built in DI, sometimes for no apparent reason it can do bad things. Mostly ground loops 60 cycle, where an external DI will give you better control over that.
4. Micing a cab will more often than not sound more like the amp on stage.
5. A DI gives you a clean signal for frequency slotting.
So, I say get a 57, and a decent DI. If the sound guy wont run ONE MORE xlr out for you, be nice and ask him please, because that's what you would like :-)

YMMV.
P.S. I have mixed bands that the bass amp has died. More than one actually. Without the DI, it would have been a show stopper. With a DI, you can limp through the show.

taurus1 · #7 08-08-2010, 03:15 PM

I mix shows sometimes on sixteen channel boards.
kik,snr,toms,flr.tom,bass,keys,keys,guitar,bg vox,ld vox, bg vox,sax,trumpet, trombone, guest vox, 2nd guitar etc.
it's very real, and very easy to run out of spare channels on a board. when the sound person says they don't have a spare channel, don't take it personally.

TimmyP · #8 08-08-2010, 11:45 PM

You won't get the low end from a mic that you will from a DI (in part because the low end does not come out of the cabinet).

As to general tone, it depends. Most bass rigs are very colored - what comes bears little resemblance to what the bass actually sounds like. So do you want the coloration, or do you want the true tone of the instrument? If the former, add a mic to the DI. If the latter, just use the DI and run the bass rig as low in level as possible.

JimmyM · #9 08-09-2010, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimmyP

You won't get the low end from a mic that you will from a DI (in part because the low end does not come out of the cabinet).

he's got an svt 810, which is sealed, so the low end does come out of his cabinet. and the low end comes out of all cabinets. i think you meant to say it doesn't come out of the speakers in a ported cab. to which i say "it doesn't matter." the lows still end up hitting the mic because they're omnidirectional. whether or not the mic picks them up is up to the individual mic, but i never had a problem with it using my pr 40.

Quote:

Originally Posted by taurus1

the ultimate is to have both. but I'd rather go direct than just mic. micing a loud bass amp isn't as easy as guitar. it's more difficult to capture the full range of the bass signal.

micing a bass amp is every bit as easy as micing a guitar amp. however, it helps if you have a mic that has some good low end response.

Mr. BassmanPT · #10 08-09-2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

micing a bass amp is every bit as easy as micing a guitar amp. however, it helps if you have a mic that has some good low end response.

is a shure sm57 a good choice for capturing bass?

pasta4lnch · #11 08-09-2010, 04:12 PM

I like a 57. it doesnt get the full spectrum but it gets all the gooey character. but i always blend w/ a di. an ev re20 might me my choice if i had no DI. but as jimmy mentioned (I never gigged w/ a svt, sorry to say) if the cab will provide the boom the 57'll do just fine! btw this is all by an inch - i dont want to give the impression the 57 has no lows. . .

JimmyM · #12 08-09-2010, 04:41 PM

the 57 has some lows, but it's definitely not a low end monster and really can use blending with a di to work.

Mr. BassmanPT · #13 08-09-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

the 57 has some lows, but it's definitely not a low end monster and really can use blending with a di to work.

in the same price range, is there a better option to mic a bass cabinet?

JimmyM · #14 08-09-2010, 05:58 PM

nope. to get low end, it usually takes going into the $250-300+ range.

Mr. BassmanPT · #15 08-09-2010, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

nope. to get low end, it usually takes going into the $250-300+ range.

not my intention to take this thread somewhere else but can you give me two or 3 options?

i am in the market for one mic!

EDIT: taken from Thomann

"

Quote:

AKG D 112

AKG D 112 dynamic microphone - cardioid polar pattern, frequency response: 20Hz-17kHz, 210ohm impedance, includes clamp (SA40). Suitable for bass drums, bass amps and tubas etc

"

What about that one? 145 euros

rockstarbassist · #16 08-09-2010, 06:08 PM

I just got a 400+ bro and am about to nab a Heil PR40.
Depending on how much resistance I get in Houston (which shouldn't be much), my next step will be something that can reamp the Speaker Out signal (like the Countryman, Radial JDX, etc..).

The 400+ has an XLR out but based on the reviews if you push the amp at all it gets kinda noisy and not great sounding. Plus you gotta hit the Line Level at the board so it doesn't blow up the Input which is just another hassle.

I'll miss the DI on my 750. Used it Post on Sat. night and the sound guy was flippin' out!

pasta4lnch · #17 08-09-2010, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmaranhao

not my intention to take this thread somewhere else but can you give me two or 3 options?

i am in the market for one mic!

EDIT: taken from Thomann

""

What about that one? 145 euros

a d112 will work. I like the ev re20 because it's a bit more versatile (but I use it on other stuff) there's a heil mic too that I read some great stuff about (not sure of the model, but it's a big dynamic) also a shure beta 52

and, maybe in the middle $$ wise, Mercenary Audio sells a 57 w/ a better tranny in it. Supposed to be more like a sm7b - get more lows and it's around $130-ish I think. I've been dying to get one . . .

having said all this I'd just be a little careful - sometimes there can be too many lows in a mic. for example, recording my LMII or minimark w/ the re20 is WAY too woofy and muddy. the 57 does the trick there. . . something to think about

JimmyM · #18 08-09-2010, 09:39 PM

ya, the 58 and 57 have some extra kick in the highs that some people like. but you can eq it into the re 20 and pr 40 easily enough.

pbass2 · #19 08-09-2010, 09:52 PM

Mic'ing is great when feasible, but if you currently don't have either I suggest arming yourself with a quality DI like a Radial JDI first. Then worry about getting a bass-rig-friendly mic when you can afford it. You, IMHO, SHOULD have a good DI in your arsenal at all times--live or in the studio, and don't rely on the DI out from an amp, or assume the house will have something good. A JDI is less than 200 bucks and is a world-class DI. It will last you forever.

JimmyM · #20 08-09-2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbass2

Mic'ing is great when feasible, but if you currently don't have either I suggest arming yourself with a quality DI like a Radial JDI first. Then worry about getting a bass-rig-friendly mic when you can afford it. You, IMHO, SHOULD have a good DI in your arsenal at all times--live or in the studio, and don't rely on the DI out from an amp, or assume the house will have something good. A JDI is less than 200 bucks and is a world-class DI. It will last you forever.

as much as i hate to admit it, i've come to that conclusion after 2 years of using a mic. i love mics, but it's a di world, and sooner or later some soundman is going to force you into it and you won't have much of a say. happens to me less and less these days, but it still happens. so it's better to have something you like at the ready than the crappy $30 di's they probably have because the bands bust up all their good stuff.