2 fingers instead of 3 for fast bass lines?

[Jkfielder]

recently i found that juan alderete during his time with racer x only used 2 fingers to play those crazily fast bass lines and i remeber seeing geddy lee play yyz using 2 as opposed to 3. I was just wondering how this even possible, i mean, obviously they know what they are doing but why play with 2 when you can get a much faster and equally fluid sound with 3?

[arbarnhart]

I am currently only using two and having an ongoing internal dispute (yeah, I argue with myself; pretty pathetic) about going to 3. The confusion factor of 3 fingers actually slows me down. Yes, I know you work through that, but as you noted using 2 doesn't seem to keep you from doing fast lines. I only alternate for 1/8 or faster notes; quarter notes are always my index finger. I get confused trying 3 because I feel like I don't have that comfortable "home position" where I am back on the index finger on beat.

[Scottgun]

I've sometimes gone to 3 for galloping Iron Maiden lines, but 2 will do just as well as 3 and even the thumb+3 technique in most cases. James Jamerson used one finger and, if he were alive, he could eat most of us for lunch.



Scott

[morf]

You cant really play faster with three fingers. It looks that way sure, but the coordination between the three added to the middle finger being longer than the other two slows you down considerably. I think they play with three because its always good to be able to throw in that third finger when you need it, and its good practice, but when they need real speed, two fingers just do the trick better.

This is all IMHO of course. Works that way for me anyway.

[lowerclef]

It's really up to the individual to find what works best. There are amazing players who use anything from one to all five fingers. Or pick, like Steve Swallow, Anthony Jackson, and Carol Kaye. Or no fingers, as is the case with Bill Clements.

[Rattlehead]

As someone who plucks with all four fingers, I actually maintain that there is not speed advantage to playing with 3 or 4 fingers.
Speed, and accuracy, are really in the mind and come from disciplined practice.

Learning 3 or 4 finger technique takes a hell of alot of practice, but it does have its own unique advantages, such as allowing you to play fast for longer without your fingers growing tired (since you divide the same amount of work up between more fingers).

I've seen waaaay too many two finger players play at lightning speed to think that 3 or 4 fingers is any faster. On the other hand though, I don't think 2 is any faster either as morf said a few posts up. The difference in finger length makes it harder to get a consistent sound, but on the other hand, once you've practice your consistency enough, you'll find that you can actually get a MORE consistent sound when playing fast lines, since with 2 fingers you almost always pick with less power when playing really fast bass lines whereas with 3-4 even when you're playing fast the fingers aren't moving THAT fast so each of them still has the time to give a full powered pluck.

Also just my opinion ... I say the individual should explore whatever works best for them.

[Dolphinbuster29]

I agree with rattle head. Ive been developing my 3 finger, and although im no where near my speed of 2 fingers, I can tell that it will be a much more smooth consistent stream of notes.
When i play really fast, it seems like my tone is hindered because i have 2 fingers to use, so I contact the string for a little less time than i might want to, and i have to get each finger reloaded faster. Once ill be comfortable at mega speed with 3, its only logical ill have smoother tone and more destinguishable notes. Its more of a flowing pattern and each finger has more time to reload so it should have a more flowing sound. It may make me play faster, however i really doubt it. Im in it for the stamina.

As for playing yyz with 3 fingers... Ive always done it with 2 and the only problem i had was making each note heard on the 4-3-2 pattern on the D string. The speed isnt a problem with 2 for me, and it would seem that if i tried with 3 it would be confusing as hell. However i learned it with 2 so who am I to say?

[PrimusNut]

I can play anything I need to play with 2 fingers. Sometimes I will go to 3 for some very fast triplet stuff, but thats about it.

[Spacelordmother]

I can throw in a 3rd finger now and again, but when I go towards the fast stuff I am using 2 fingers plucking both on the upstroke AND downstroke - kinda like Wooten's double thump, just with my index and middle fingers instead of thumb. 4 notes for the price of 2!

[Jkfielder]

Originally Posted by Dolphinbuster29

I agree with rattle head. Ive been developing my 3 finger, and although im no where near my speed of 2 fingers, I can tell that it will be a much more smooth consistent stream of notes.
When i play really fast, it seems like my tone is hindered because i have 2 fingers to use, so I contact the string for a little less time than i might want to, and i have to get each finger reloaded faster. Once ill be comfortable at mega speed with 3, its only logical ill have smoother tone and more destinguishable notes. Its more of a flowing pattern and each finger has more time to reload so it should have a more flowing sound. It may make me play faster, however i really doubt it. Im in it for the stamina.

As for playing yyz with 3 fingers... Ive always done it with 2 and the only problem i had was making each note heard on the 4-3-2 pattern on the D string. The speed isnt a problem with 2 for me, and it would seem that if i tried with 3 it would be confusing as hell. However i learned it with 2 so who am I to say?

the concensus seems to be that 2 is just as good, and ive seen that the same speeds can be reached. however, i think that when it comes to those 3 notes per string lines as in if you play a major scale or chromatic - actually pretty much any scale 3 just makes more sense for the same reason its easier to play the quaver / semi tone bass lines that steve harris writes alot (run to the hills etc) in YYZ ive found that most of it is a combination of 2 notes and then 1 note on another string and very rarely is there 3 notes per string. I know that alot of guitarists favour the use of hammer ons and pull offs instead of picking each note tony iommi comes to mind :P hmmm im not sure i remeber that doing straight quaver basslines playing the root note using 2 fingers was alot more consistant but after you practice with 3 for long enough it feels equally as consistant which brings me back to my question.

is there any advantage to using 2 instead of 3 fingers?

[Mark Perry]

Originally Posted by Spacelordmother

I can throw in a 3rd finger now and again, but when I go towards the fast stuff I am using 2 fingers plucking both on the upstroke AND downstroke - kinda like Wooten's double thump, just with my index and middle fingers instead of thumb. 4 notes for the price of 2!

Chuck Rainey uses that technique with his index finger, instead of alternately plucking with his index and middle fingers.
Players like Jaco and Jamerson used as few fingers as possible (Jamerson did occasionally use two). Imo it gives a bigger, more consistent sound if you use only one or two, just like it does on the upright bass.

[morf]

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

As someone who plucks with all four fingers, I actually maintain that there is not speed advantage to playing with 3 or 4 fingers.
Speed, and accuracy, are really in the mind and come from disciplined practice.

Learning 3 or 4 finger technique takes a hell of alot of practice, but it does have its own unique advantages, such as allowing you to play fast for longer without your fingers growing tired (since you divide the same amount of work up between more fingers).

I've seen waaaay too many two finger players play at lightning speed to think that 3 or 4 fingers is any faster. On the other hand though, I don't think 2 is any faster either as morf said a few posts up. The difference in finger length makes it harder to get a consistent sound, but on the other hand, once you've practice your consistency enough, you'll find that you can actually get a MORE consistent sound when playing fast lines, since with 2 fingers you almost always pick with less power when playing really fast bass lines whereas with 3-4 even when you're playing fast the fingers aren't moving THAT fast so each of them still has the time to give a full powered pluck.

Also just my opinion ... I say the individual should explore whatever works best for them.

This sounds correct. I havent practiced playing with three or more fingers, I dont really feel the need to as of yet. Maybe when I can play Funk the Dumb Stuff as fast as Rocco with two fingers I'll get started on adding a third

[Craig Garfinkel]

Originally Posted by Jkfielder

recently i found that juan alderete during his time with racer x only used 2 fingers to play those crazily fast bass lines and i remeber seeing geddy lee play yyz using 2 as opposed to 3. I was just wondering how this even possible, i mean, obviously they know what they are doing but why play with 2 when you can get a much faster and equally fluid sound with 3?

Why do you assume you can play faster with 3 fingers than with 2? No matter how fast you're playing, you're still only playing one note at a time. The fastest guitar player on earth (whoever that might be) is using a two-stroke motion with a pick, up and down, much like a bassist's two finger technique. If your more-fingers-equals-more-speed theory were correct, all those shredders should be playing finger-style.

[haloonpc]

I play mostly slaping and popping but I do use three fingers, however when I want to get into it I use two so it feels faster paced.

[BrandonBass]

3 fingers arent nessasarily faster than 2, infact it can be slower if you dont practise it enough.

the only advantage i can think of that 3 fingers has over 2 is that it tires ur finger less easily

[WalterBush]

In my experience, 2 fingers are faster when skipping strings, 3 faster when playing along one.

Incidentally, Geddy frequently, and by that I mean mostly, puts 2 fingers together and uses them like a giant hook. He uses them separately when skipping strings, but watch his hands more closely. I was amazed at how well he gets around doing the hook-handed thing.

[morf]

3 finger technique is good for popping though. Like if you wanna nail the intro to Boogie On Reggae Woman by Marcus Miller, you're gonna need that three finger technique developped well.

[Xoryn]

I am going to explain what happened to me with my bass playing.

One of my first influences was Steve Harris of Iron Maiden and I always found galloping pieces hard with two fingers. This made me venture into three finger playing for a gallop. I eventually build this up to be really fast. I then began to look into four because I was working on the theory that more means being faster and also it gave me an even number to work with.
So I proceeded to build this up. I got the point where I was really fast with my four fingers there was a big disadvantage. Changing strings or skipping strings. Whenever a line required either I kept slipping into playing with two fingers or three. It became really frustrating because I couldn't get it right, it was like fighting an instinct. I became with obsessed with trying to get something as simple as "Money" playable with four fingers.
I eventually realised that all the work I was putting in all this effort for what? A bit more speed? I eventually switched back to two fingers. I then noticed a radical change, things like the gallop were now easy and I could play fast lines quite easily.
So it seems four fingers or three fingers were not for me because I effectively achieve the same thing with two than I could with three(four I was worse alot of the time because of focusing on my fingers). But I think it improved my playing but however I spent alot of time on a "useless"(to me atleast) way of playing.
It just shows not to get to hung up on a style or a way of playing. Just because a certain bassist plays with four fingers doesn't mean you have to. Just do what it comfitable to you

[Jkfielder]

Originally Posted by Craig Garfinkel

Why do you assume you can play faster with 3 fingers than with 2? No matter how fast you're playing, you're still only playing one note at a time. The fastest guitar player on earth (whoever that might be) is using a two-stroke motion with a pick, up and down, much like a bassist's two finger technique. If your more-fingers-equals-more-speed theory were correct, all those shredders should be playing finger-style.

explain to me how its NOT true, with a 3rd finger your saving economy of motion by throwing another finger in there and letting each finger rest for the small amount longer and then of course for string crossing you have a longer reach with your ring finger.

in terms of why pick players are fast a pick motion is different to a 2 finger motion, its not up down its 1 then the other for fingers and they things are flesh and bone that require actual force to get a sound where as a pick requires very minimal effort to execute a down stroke and then an upstroke to return to the original position.

then theres the reason why bassists can play finger style the way they do - the thickness of the strings. on a guitar the strings are very tiny so the area of attack with a pick is more suitable instead of using a finger.

but we arent talking about guitarist technique we are talking about bass technique

[Jkfielder]

Originally Posted by Xoryn

I am going to explain what happened to me with my bass playing.

One of my first influences was Steve Harris of Iron Maiden and I always found galloping pieces hard with two fingers. This made me venture into three finger playing for a gallop. I eventually build this up to be really fast. I then began to look into four because I was working on the theory that more means being faster and also it gave me an even number to work with.
So I proceeded to build this up. I got the point where I was really fast with my four fingers there was a big disadvantage. Changing strings or skipping strings. Whenever a line required either I kept slipping into playing with two fingers or three. It became really frustrating because I couldn't get it right, it was like fighting an instinct. I became with obsessed with trying to get something as simple as "Money" playable with four fingers.
I eventually realised that all the work I was putting in all this effort for what? A bit more speed? I eventually switched back to two fingers. I then noticed a radical change, things like the gallop were now easy and I could play fast lines quite easily.
So it seems four fingers or three fingers were not for me because I effectively achieve the same thing with two than I could with three(four I was worse alot of the time because of focusing on my fingers). But I think it improved my playing but however I spent alot of time on a "useless"(to me atleast) way of playing.
It just shows not to get to hung up on a style or a way of playing. Just because a certain bassist plays with four fingers doesn't mean you have to. Just do what it comfitable to you

i similarly have steve harris as an early influence but you cant tell me that you can play gallops faster with 2 fingers than with 3 when you just cascade fingers along the string.

in terms of 4 fingers your basically using 2 lots of 2 so theres not much point. not to mention the little finger is so much smaller it makes it not worth trying. with 3 fingers your ring is the same length as your index.

im not about more fingers = better

im about 3 fingers logically better than 2 and better than 4