5th fret rather than open

[JamieParkinson]

Hi,

I'm actually a Double Bass player and have just ventured over here to The Dark Side to ask you all a question...

I look at a fair few bass tabs so I can play them on my double bass (often use guitar pro so I can get some nice familiar sheet music) and have noticed that more often than not, fifth fret on the lower string is used instead of an open string. Why is this? I'm sure there's a good reason for it, but it's not one I've been able to think of myself...

Thanks!

Jamie

[ThrashMaster]

on an upright both the fingerboard and nut and made of ebony so the tone is pretty consistent. On a fretted electric the frets are nickel or steel, while the nut can be made from plastic, corian, bone, slipstone, brass, etc etc...but its almost never the same material as the frets. This means that open notes typically have a somewhat different sound than fretted ones.

Also, when you stop playing a fretted noting the muting is basically part of that motion, but on an open note, its a seperate motion to mute it. Not a big deal on an upright since the decay is so fast, but on an electric w/ roundwounds good muting technique becomes alot more important.

on a side note, I just bought an upright, and wow, playing it is a workout

[Jefenator]

Can't speak to the thinking of the TAB authors, but I often steer toward the 5th fret for a thicker timbre. I'll even use the 10th fret for the exact same purpose. (Double thickness!! )

Of course it can also simplify fingering certain patterns. And/or look cool.

[superiorpine]

2 possible reasons. One, easier to get to the next note in a similar position. Two, back in the stone age, it was not uncommon for notes played on open strings on an electric bass to sound different than fretted notes (more ringing, more volume, etc.). When I first started playing, I avoided open strings for that reason. Now I use them all of the time because there is not a noticeable difference in tone.

[colcifer]

I don't know who first said it, but a piece of advice often given to beginners is "Don't play an open note unless you really mean it."

As with all other things in music, open vs. fretted should be decided on a case by case basis, but it's good advice still.

[groooooove]

theres a bunch of reasons why or why not to use an open string.

1. fingering. depending on the passage, one or the other may have a nicer flow under your fingers, this is probably the most common reason.

2. tone, as mentioned above, not only are nuts differnt material than frets, but the string length makes the tone noticably differnt

3. so you can transpose easier- certain passages, if you learn them without open strings, you can move it without having issues what so ever, (if you ever need too.) if you get used to something with an open string, sometimes thatll make it awkward if you try and play it in a new key without it.

[butchblack]

Originally Posted by groooooove

theres a bunch of reasons why or why not to use an open string.

3. so you can transpose easier- certain passages, if you learn them without open strings, you can move it without having issues what so ever, (if you ever need too.) if you get used to something with an open string, sometimes that'll make it awkward if you try and play it in a new key without it.

I was taught that from my first bass teacher. It took me many years before I started to use open strings when it made sense to. I don't think the tonal differences are that big of a deal, if any at all.

My 2 ¢

[Top_Ten]

My (electric) bass teacher actually encourages me to think about how a double bass player would play a piece, including more liberal use of open strings than is typical on electric. It takes some practice to get the open and fretted tone the same and to think outside your normal fingering patterns, but it opens up a lot of additional options. It sort of takes something that is a necessity on double bass and turns it into an additional set of choices on electric.

[countrybassist]

For me it depends on what I'm playing, like where I'm at and where I'm going next. I do alot of percussive muting when I play, so I do fret the notes alot. It's easier for me that way.

[Greevus]

the open nut will sometimes cut out quicker or sound slightly higher in timbre.

[groooooove]

Originally Posted by butchblack

I was taught that from my first bass teacher. It took me many years before I started to use open strings when it made sense to. I don't think the tonal differences are that big of a deal, if any at all.

My 2 ¢

yeah, the tone is noticeably different, but i dont think it actually matters that much.

when we talk about fingerings / open strings, often all we'll talk about is how its better to learn things without the open strings, which i disagree with. sometimes that open string is a huge advantage that you might as well use.

[bassybill]

Up the neck = more mud. My playing has always involved playing in the lowest position possible for reasons of clarity, all other considerations being equal. That includes playing open strings when I can, but you do have to take a little more care with muting when using them.

[Jefenator]

IME the tonal difference can be quite significant in the heat of a gig - especially up above the 5th fret.

But I agree it's good to learn the open strings, too. Nothing like a bunch of 1st position exercises (scales, modes, intervals, embellishments, etc... in all keys) to cure one's dependance on finger patterns (& ignorance of theory).

[lunarpollen]

Originally Posted by ThrashMaster

on an upright both the fingerboard and nut and made of ebony so the tone is pretty consistent. On a fretted electric the frets are nickel or steel, while the nut can be made from plastic, corian, bone, slipstone, brass, etc etc...but its almost never the same material as the frets. This means that open notes typically have a somewhat different sound than fretted ones.

The difference between nut material and fret material has very little to do with the difference in tone. You'll notice the same difference in tone on fretless bass guitars as well. The big reason for the difference in tone is (a) the difference in string gauge between the open note and the fretted note--the fretted note is played on a fatter string, contributing to the fatness of the sound; and (b) the position of the pickup in relation to the vibrating portion of the string is different--the length of string of the fretted note is shorter, so the relative position of the pickup is further from the bridge and closer to the middle of the vibrating length of string than it is with the open note, contributing to a fuller tone.

[Phalex]

I'm lazy. I play most everything in the first position. 5th fret, open..... It all sounds the same to my ear.

[INTP]

I have a different experience for DB. My orchestra teachers always said to avoid using open strings, since the open string sounds different than the fingered notes, especially when vibrato is used.

I carried the habit over to bass guitar, and rarely use open strings. Generally speaking, it's usually easier to find a fingering that works in this position. There is a tonal difference, but I don't find that for most songs it matters that much.

[gribuski]

I've played both EB and DB about evenly the last year and a half or so. I was electric originally for 12+ years, and added DB of years ago.

I play 5 fret on electric, and open on DB. I've found it's totally b/c of positioning. With the small neck and frets on the electric, I want to maximize accessible notes without moving my hand. Also, I do think it sounds much more even. I even play at the 5th fret for E on a 5 string.

On upright, I play a lot of bluegrass, and to play the 5th fret A or D seems silly and a lot of needless extra work. It adds a lot more stress than necessary because the notes are so much further apart. And I think the long string lengths on an upright sound so great so I try to maximize that as much as possible. Also, an added bonus is it is a guaranteed properly intonated note.

That's my $0.02.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by JamieParkinson

Hi,

I'm actually a Double Bass player and have just ventured over here to The Dark Side to ask you all a question...

I look at a fair few bass tabs so I can play them on my double bass (often use guitar pro so I can get some nice familiar sheet music) and have noticed that more often than not, fifth fret on the lower string is used instead of an open string. Why is this? I'm sure there's a good reason for it, but it's not one I've been able to think of myself...

Thanks!

Jamie

i believe that db players start off using the open strings as reference for intonation and with fretted instruments it's not necessary

[Ben Clarke]

The mere fact that you're asking the question seems to suggest that you should move on from tab. That type of decision happens all the time. There is a difference in sound for mutiple reasons, and it only makes sense to play it the way that's most appropriate for the context in your judgement as a musician.

When I was studying upright, I liked to play method books written for other instruments. I'd work on etudes independently first and make fingering and bowing notations in the book, then take it to a lesson or to the whole studio for feedback. It forced me to be relatively sure I could play what I wanted to, rather than limit my improv content to stuff that lays well under my hands. It worked, though I never became a consistent upright player.

[treekiller]

Originally Posted by colcifer

I don't know who first said it, but a piece of advice often given to beginners is "Don't play an open note unless you really mean it."

I think I actually read it in Phil Lesh's book.......

It's the way I usually play, just sounds right to me.