Adapting a very rusty Classical Guitarist to BG

iamasmith · #1 08-30-2011, 04:24 PM

OK, some history. I have played classical guitar since I was 7.. so that's 36 years if you don't count the breaks but at my height I was practicing about 6 hours a day and fairly good and at one point playing Flamenco and using Alzapua techniques.

I never quite settled with Electric guitars because I couldn't relate to the instrument in the same way as an acoustic instrument... so much tonal variation with tiny variations on the classical without pedals and such.

I bought myself a PRS Mira about 3 years ago thinking that if it ever came to me to play electric guitar I would have a decent one knocking around and to be honest although it is lovely to play and I enjoy it every time I pick it up there's still not the attachment that I get with classical and I find that I'm sloppy on timing since most of the music I play is quite interpretive and solo.

So, up to date.. after a gap of about 28 years I decided to get a bass, remembering a brief spell I had at late high school when I played bass trying to form a band.

The technique and the appreciation for perfection for each sound of each note seems more in keeping with what I'm comfortable with and the focus on strict timing and rhythm is something that I hope will carry over into my electric guitar which I always regret I don't play more but there are things that are bugging me..

1.) Nails.. I have cut my nails shortish but I'm still shy of trimming them right off, more out of habit really because of a want to pick up the classical if I want.. but I am finding it more obvious in the sound if a nail touches the string when I want a rounded sound... is it more usual to keep them really short??

2.) Fingering. I've watched a lot of bass videos on YouTube and I find that my fingering is quite different. Almost nobody uses the little finger on the left hand. Is this just due to lack of practice or strength? I'm adjusting to the distance between the strings at present so I'm not all that accurate but I feel all my fingers are strong enough.

3.) Thumbs!. Aside from slap and that's something I'm interested in as with all sounds, I see a lot of folks relying on rhythmic use of one or maybe two fingers and no thumbs. I can only speculate that this is more in keeping with a bass style and perhaps helps to keep a certain tempo.. don't know, comments welcome but I have played a few Rush tracks (remembered from my youth) and omitting the thumb does seem to work better for some reason.

I'm sure there's more but that's what springs to mind at the moment. Any comments and/or tips are greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Andy

MalcolmAmos · #2 08-30-2011, 05:53 PM

The bass is an accompaniment instrument. Sure you can solo on it - when you are given a lead break. However the bass is primarily an accompaniment instrument in the rhythm section of a band. Now if you can live with that.....

As to nails, fingering and thumb. It's all different than what you are used to. Neither of those is a primary concern - IMHO.

My suggestion is to get with an instructor sit knee to knee and see if this is something you are going to like. Four 30 minute lessons will cost around $100-$150 US. Probably money well spent.

Good luck.

Gintaras · #3 08-30-2011, 06:07 PM

I play with my little finger on the left hand and on the right I use 3 fingers. Probably picked that up from taking classical guitars lesson for a while in my younger years. I still have a classical guitar and pick it up regularly just to noodle on. Bring your strengths to the bass and you might find that you have developed a unique sound.
Remember the prime directive.... we are part of the rhythm section.

Jhengsman · #4 08-31-2011, 08:24 AM

I thought it was the ring finger and not the little finger that we use less often?. For me lack of strength is most of the reason. When I concentrate on my fingers both ring and little are normally on the same fret but I am using the little with the ring supporting

E.J. T.N.T. · #5 08-31-2011, 08:56 AM

From my experience of classical guitarists I am guessing your left hand technique is probably A LOT better than the average beginner and a lot stronger. I would advise you to just adapt your guitar technique to the bass concerning that part.

The right hand technique is also probably better than the average beginner but there are some difference. The norm for right hand technique is to use the softer part of your index and middle finger. I am guessing that you might be able to use your ring finger. That is also ok and it can give some extra speed too.

The thumb is different story. As you might have noticed bassplayers use their thumb in a different way (slapping) but there are some guys that also use it in a similar way guitar players do( e.g. reggae bass players)

I would advise to focus on the fingerstyle first and then on slap and maybe then playing with a pick as well. Concerning the nails, as long as they don't get in the way, it is ok to have them as long as you want.

stflbn · #6 08-31-2011, 08:58 AM

Fingernails cut to the quick... IMHO. unless you want a pick type sound.

Hock · #7 08-31-2011, 11:41 AM

Good topic. I am a guitarist learning bass now for 5 months. I'm trying (1) index/middle (2) combo thumb, index and middle like mark Knofler and (3) thumb, (4) pick. My 12 year old, stubborn guy prefers thumb, and I'm encouraging him to at least try the index/middle - wrong/right? His particlular bass, a jaguar model has a very wide end - tough for him to play the two finger method comfortably with his right hand - I have to agree with him on that one.

**colcifer** · #8 08-31-2011, 11:50 AM

Fretting, the pinky is often used. The people you saw might have been upright bassists primarily in which case they'd use three finger positions out of habit.

dhsierra1 · #9 08-31-2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gintaras

I play with my little finger on the left hand and on the right I use 3 fingers. Probably picked that up from taking classical guitars lesson for a while in my younger years. I still have a classical guitar and pick it up regularly just to noodle on. Bring your strengths to the bass and you might find that you have developed a unique sound.
Remember the prime directive.... we are part of the rhythm section.

+1, I trained on classical guitar for awhile and found it extremely useful in gaining a different sound on bass guitar in addition to using the classic "Fender style" of index and middle fingers. They all have their place in the technique tool box so it's just a matter of using them in their proper place and time.

I actually wind up using four fingers on my right hand in a lot of instances and using the pinkie as an anchor I can slide around a bit to vary the attack/punch. So the thumb can definitely be used as part of the package outside of slapping IME.

Fergie Fulton · #10 08-31-2011, 12:41 PM

Bass guitar is just that a guitar, so classical technique is great to adapt to it. The classical picking hand uses a flat wrist, and fingers, so multple fingers being used will give great dexterity to lines, as the instrument relates well to picking techniques (banjo as well). The fretting hand again has great dexterity in the shapes and runs that are used in classical techniques (pre shaping chords for instance) but choosing what notes to use when applied to bass. Again great training for the hands (and mind) in an era of multi string instruments and its growing status as a melodical instrument rather than root 5 thumper.

On the plucking hand, there are a number of players that use thumb, fore and middle finger as a standard set up.

Mayers · #11 08-31-2011, 04:51 PM

I don,t think looking on youtube is a great idea to see great bass playing technic wise ... Many only use 3 fretting fingers like the pinky is useless and put their thumb over the neck ... ( you can also see guitar player do that too ... very bad )

I think you shouldn't change anything from what you already know. Your picking hand is better than 90% of bass player and guitar player, your fretting hand is use to more gymnastic than many bass player will ever be able to do.

Try to solo, you may be the next great thing in a world too much stuck with lack of vision. You should check jazz player like Dominic Di Piazza who use a 4 plucking finger technic like a classical guitar player.

makkE · #12 09-01-2011, 03:15 AM

On nails:
If you want to keep your nails long enough to play the classical as well, you have a few choices:

1. Just play with your nails, and have a more pick-like tone.

2. Play with a pick - you can use felt or hard leather picks if you want a mellow, more fingerstylish sound.

3. Play with the side of your thumb, very mellow sound.

If you want to use traditional fingerstyle and get that tone, you will need to clip your nails.

Check out the garry willison technique, there's a sticky on it here. He uses thumb, index, middle and ring, pretty similar to a classical guitar approach.

oniman7 · #13 09-01-2011, 09:28 PM

My high school has a classical guitar program that I auditioned for, and I'm currently in the second level. I feel I'm one of the better kids there, but bass is my "home" instrument.

On nails: I keep them long for both bass and classical guitar. They help me get a stronger tone on the bass without using a pick.

On the thumb: I do use my thumb, but rarely. It's a technique like anything else. We have a song that's a really slow D-F-D-F for a couple of measures while the singer sings. I use my thumb to provide a really bassy, boomy sound (I also switch from bridge to neck pickup). Another song had some arpeggios where I was going (string wise) 1-2-1-2-3-1-2-1-2-1-2-3-2-1-2. For a while, I used my thumb for 1st string (A), i finger for 2nd string (D) and m finger for 3rd string (G). When playing it live, I would often cramp up, so I have switched from free stroke P-I-M to rest stroke I-M-A. Much more comfortable to play, and I can play it much faster and cleaner. Maybe my thumb's just not developed enough, but I feel like the fingers are generally going to be a better choice for power. It's a technique like any other.

On fingering: laziness. I have tiny hands, a big bass, and play lots of chords, arpeggios, etc. Reach is a must for me, so I trained every finger on my left hand to be strong. I make full use of my pinky. I think everybody should know how to, even if they elect not to for whatever reason is their own.