Anyone here actually able to do this?

[bopeuph]

I had an audition for Royal Caribbean yesterday over the phone. He told me not to worry about email; the last two auditions for cruise lines (which I passed) would send me the music about an hour before they called and have me play through it.

Instead of sending me email, he had me play from my Real Book. As soon as he called, he said "okay, let's get started." So he kept having me walk basslines to tunes in the book. After a few tunes and a blues and rhythm changes, he said I had a good feel and can definitely play a bassline, and asked me if I knew Joy Spring. I said I haven't yet committed it to memory. So, he told me to read down the melody. After about two bars, I said, "I'm sorry, I gotta tell you, I just don't think that's really possible." So, he told me to play Scrapple. I never learned the tune, so that was pure sightreading, too. After I couldn't play it right away, he said that he would call me back in ten minutes and give me a chance to look over it.

So, over those ten minutes, I definitely was able to make it sound like Scrapple, but there was just not enough time to perfect it. I had to have made it 1000% better. But he said, you missed this note, this note is an E (looks a lot like an F in the book), you rushed this rest.

I was pretty proud of myself, since I'm not much of an electric bass player, and I was able to play that at all at the drop of a hat, and that I have already passed two cruise auditions. But he said just this: "Okay, I have to level with you. Your reading (probably one of my strongest points if you don't consider this) is very weak, and my music is a lot harder on the ships. If I'm in a bind, I'll call you, but I just want to let you know that you won't be my first choice."

I thought it was a little strange to expect anyone to be able to read such music right away. I was told that on these ships, you get the music at LEAST an hour before hand, and I could have had Scrapple down if I had 20 minutes, and maybe Joy Spring if I had an hour. So I thought that was just a little out.

But I'm wondering, has anyone here ever tried to sightread such tunes on electric bass? And if you're at that ability to do such a thing, wouldn't a cruise line at about $500 a week be beneath you by that point?

Nick

[Ed Fuqua]

BOP - man, you got some funny attitudes. There's guys up here who play great and are scuffling whatever little jobs they can do to get by. There's no such thing as "beneath you", there's just the decision of does the bread outweigh the fun factor or vice versa.

My reading is barely passable, you throw something with a lot of rests and syncopations at me, I gotta sit down and work on it. It sounds like the MD doesn't want to have any cats in the band that HAVE to sit down and work on it. So I wouldn't get the gig either.

But sure, there are plenty of cats who do sight read (on electric and/or upright) flyshit in either bass or treble clef; first cat that comes to mind that I know personally is Tom Hubbard. Sight reading's like anything else, you want to be good at it, you do it all the time. Read through anything and everything, always have new stuff to read (so you're actually working on reading and not "memorizing" a piece), read music like some people read books or the paper. Then you'll be one of those guys.

[bopeuph]

Yeah, I know I have a some funny attitudes. Heh.

And yeah, I know I need to read better. I would figure though, if anyone COULD read something like that, what I mean by the gig is beneath them is that by that point, most would probably have one or two gigs a week on the mainland that would pay as much as you could make on the ship in one week.

And, yeah, I will be spending the next few months reading melodies (my Real Book is in treble cleft, by the way. That doesn't bug me).

I have stacks of books for a bunch of different instruments that will be cracked open for my slab now.

Nick

[HaVIC5]

Sight reading chops in the industry are essential, and if a gig is a gig, then nothing is beneath you. Sight reading is a different skill entirely from "sitting down and working on it for 10 minutes". On the bandstand, there's no working on a tune - you get it, you play it right the first time, and then you move on, bass clef, treble clef, tenor clef, whathave you. The tunes he had you do actually aren't very difficult in the general scheme of things to read down, especially if you were doing it in bass clef and knew how the tunes sounded like (that's always a helpful thing when reading a melody down). I can do that reasonably well, but the reason why I don't get the gigs on the mainland is because frankly, there are a lot of people who read better than that.

Reading is fortunately the easiest thing in your arsenal to work on. It doesn't take any theoretical concepts or complex practice schedule besides READ, and constantly.

[BigNoise]

Look, they are just in it to make money plain and simple. But in actaulity all the cruises that I have been on don't have very complex song structures, in fact they mostly sound improvised.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

BOP - man, you got some funny attitudes. There's guys up here who play great and are scuffling whatever little jobs they can do to get by.

But sure, there are plenty of cats who do sight read (on electric and/or upright) flyshit in either bass or treble clef

Yes - I have met many guys who teach Jazz, who can play anything at the drop of a hat - and will read the most complex charts imaginable and make it sound as if they have been doing it all their lives - and they still talk about how they struggle to get a mortgage/loan as music is not considered a steady job by the banks!

Originally Posted by BigNoise

But in actaulity all the cruises that I have been on don't have very complex song structures, in fact they mostly sound improvised.

Well if you can afford to go on cruises as a passenger and listen to the band - then you don't need to worry about your reading skills!

[PocketGroove82]

Damn...if I get to hear live bass players ripping charlie parker heads and scat soloing over joy spring, I think I might consider taking a cruise.

[Ed Fuqua]

Just while we're on the subject of sight reading, anybody play with pianist Tim Harrison? He's the friend of a friend and the story is that he can sight sing a line up to 5 bars ahead of where he's playing it on piano....

[Liko]

Originally Posted by bopeuph

I had an audition for Royal Caribbean yesterday over the phone. He told me not to worry about email; the last two auditions for cruise lines (which I passed) would send me the music about an hour before they called and have me play through it.

Instead of sending me email, he had me play from my Real Book. As soon as he called, he said "okay, let's get started." So he kept having me walk basslines to tunes in the book. After a few tunes and a blues and rhythm changes, he said I had a good feel and can definitely play a bassline, and asked me if I knew Joy Spring. I said I haven't yet committed it to memory. So, he told me to read down the melody. After about two bars, I said, "I'm sorry, I gotta tell you, I just don't think that's really possible." So, he told me to play Scrapple. I never learned the tune, so that was pure sightreading, too. After I couldn't play it right away, he said that he would call me back in ten minutes and give me a chance to look over it.

So, over those ten minutes, I definitely was able to make it sound like Scrapple, but there was just not enough time to perfect it. I had to have made it 1000% better. But he said, you missed this note, this note is an E (looks a lot like an F in the book), you rushed this rest.

I was pretty proud of myself, since I'm not much of an electric bass player, and I was able to play that at all at the drop of a hat, and that I have already passed two cruise auditions. But he said just this: "Okay, I have to level with you. Your reading (probably one of my strongest points if you don't consider this) is very weak, and my music is a lot harder on the ships. If I'm in a bind, I'll call you, but I just want to let you know that you won't be my first choice."

I thought it was a little strange to expect anyone to be able to read such music right away. I was told that on these ships, you get the music at LEAST an hour before hand, and I could have had Scrapple down if I had 20 minutes, and maybe Joy Spring if I had an hour. So I thought that was just a little out.

But I'm wondering, has anyone here ever tried to sightread such tunes on electric bass? And if you're at that ability to do such a thing, wouldn't a cruise line at about $500 a week be beneath you by that point?

Nick

It's a cruise line at $500 a week, all expenses paid. If I didn't have to worry about food or rent, $500/week is hella spending cash. And if you get one gig and it works well, you get called back, to the point where you can do it pretty much every day. Imagine living on a cruise ship; you're not playing ALL the time. Long as you don't get seasick, it sounds like one heck of a deal to me.

Course I'm not good enough to even consider auditioning for a gig like that. I can read music very well, but sightreading for bass is not a strong suit of mine, especially jazz. Praise music is more my bag, and I've yet to see one of the megachurches rent out an entire cruise ship.

[BigNoise]

That has always been a dream of mine to play on a cruise ship..

[mccartneyman]

Sightreading is essential if you want to gig, and leaders usually are intolerant. As an illustration, I went to a jazz night a year ago where the bassist, whom I know, was a last minute replacement. He arrived just before downbeat. The quartet had charts, but they were all original tunes except for the first number. Before the second number, I saw the leader talking to the bass player. It was clear that he was saying, "are you comfortable?" The bassist nodded his head and, after one chorus, they threw him a solo. He played great.

Two weeks ago, I saw another jazz night with much the same situation -- last minute call for the bass player. He made it through one standard, then they called another tune that had a chart, but it was clear that the piano player had his own arrangement in mind. After one chorus, he turned to the bass player and told him to stop playing. It was tense.

It can be tough out there.

[damianerskine]

yeah... (was it at least in bass clef?) unfortunately, the pay scale doesn't always reflect the ability level they demand. But it's true, 99% of us full time musicians still struggle with mortgages, bills, etc... It's always so inconsistent, too. One month makes you feel rich and the next two make you consider a coffee shop gig if it doesn't pick up soon.

But, yeah, on the pro level, you are expected to be able to sight-read like you wrote the tune (sometimes in treble clef, too! And not just read it but PLAY it and make it sound musical and personal. Actually, I've had so many gigs requiring me to read treble clef over the past few years that it's almost as good as my bass clef at this point (not in the extended ledger line range, tho.... right now that's exclusive to my bass clef reading).
It's like a MM quote I read a while back. When asked whether someone should spend more time studying being a good bassist or soloist, he said, "Who said you had a choice?!". And that's true... Especially as the middle class diminishes and it's harder and harder to make a living. It also raises the bar on expected ability as a freelance musician. there are SO many heavy players who are flat broke that (especially corporate gigs like that or Disney, Broadway, etc...) can really demand a-list ability at b-list wages.
Don't mean to sound so negative, but it's true.
That being said... If you do your homework and develop those abilities?... You can work every night of the week depending on the town you live in. If you are a pro bassist with pro gear, pro attitude, that can read hand-written (in pencil) fly **** on a page at 200bpm, blow over changes, play tumbao, have rock solid time with a songwriter, make something stoopid funky without overplaying, know their way around a studio, take direction in a studio, play a Klezmer "oompah" gig in the afternoon, odd-meter fusion set at night and wake up for the country session....

That's when you really start to work. freelance musicians these days have an inherent NEED to diversify. It's the only way to stay alive! (well, at least it was the only way for me to quit my job driving a truck, changing tires, working construction or working at coffee shops...

Reading is the type of skill that requires DAILY repetition. If you work on it here and there, you will most often be "starting over" if too much time has passed.

[manutabora]

Oh man, I remember when I had to learn scrapple for my jazz lessons... Hard tune for sure, I think in ten minutes I might be able to get it to sound decent, but just the head. Changes and soloing would be kind of out of the question for me with just ten minutes.
Yeah, like that guy said, it can be tough out there. I think I'm going to stick to classical for a living

[davec]

Bop, I completely understand what your saying, and I'm not gonna beat you up. In fact I would feel the same way.

However, the ecconomy sucks and many of us are going for the same gigs. I personally have a friend who can sight Rocco lines and has been nominated for a grammy and has played some big gigs who is playing VFW's and driving a bus to put a little extra awayand to provide insurance.

Besides being able to read and play don't underestimate THE HANG. Is it possible that the leader just wanted to see how you reacted to adversity and pressure.

I would call and let him know that I was a willing sub and ask if he could provide honest feedback on any other areas for improvement

Best of luck

[Scot]

bop,

I did one contract for Princess. It was a pretty demanding reading gig for me and I have played quite a few reading gigs and consider myself a good reader.

The main part of the gig consisted of playing two shows per night. Every night of the week is a different show and some of the shows consisted of 15 or so 10-page or longer charts. The 7 piece band (4 horns and 3 rhythm) played along with "sweetening tracks", which meant everyone had a head set with a click beating away in your ear. There were lots of time sig changes, tempo changes, key changes, etc., so you had to keep an eye on the conductor/band leader and not lose your place. Sometimes the click was the 1/8 note, sometimes the 1/4 note, sometimes the 1/2 note in cut time. It was sort of all over the map but you had to be on it. The band leader didn't tolerate any mistakes from the rhythm section (even though he was a hack trumpet player himself, but thats' another story).

You could possibly get the charts and recordings of those shows ahead of time and practice enough to get them down cold but, there's another aspect to consider. They would have guest entertainers once or twice per week. Some of them, comedians for example, were very easy in that they just needed a play-on/play-off. Others had a bunch of charts that you would see for the first time at the rehearsal the day of the show. There wasn't time to get any tricky notated passages under your fingers. The few minutes you had with the chart had to be spent deciphering things like repeat signs that had been penciled in and erased a dozen times, sections that were crossed out and then erased multiple times, and all kinds of other scribblings from the poor other bassists who had to read the charts. Of course, when you ask the entertainer any roadmap-related questions, they just say something like: "play it like it's written". It's supposed to be the band leader's job to mediate things like that but you couldn't count on any help there.

Those reading situations dealing with poor charts are what really separate the men from the boys.

In addition to all that, the band would have to play a dance set before the two shows which consisted of big band stuff - Little Brown Jug, etc. Many of these charts are slash notation with kicks, etc. but there were a couple that had notation and the bass is playing the melody in the upper register of the instrument and you never knew when those would be called. Again, you could shed the book. Most of the charts were pretty standard arrangements so an advantage goes to players that have done a lot of reading because they've probably read the same chart on other gigs.

Also, there were times where the rhythm section had to play little cocktail sets playing tunes. This was usually fun - a trio setting and, as long as you weren't getting requests to play a tango or something, you could just play standards. A fake book was fine if needed.

Every once in a while it would be expected to play dance stuff on the upper deck for the "younger" crowd playing pop/rock/dance stuff. You have to know a lot of cover tunes.

The piano player would get stuck doing solo stuff for different occasions.

They keep the musicians working. No days off. Very tight living quarters. Visiting the same handful of ports over and over and sometimes you would have to remain on the ship when at port to "man" it in case of an emergency. It ain't for most, believe me. I couldn't wait to get off that boat.

But back to your original post - the guy was probably, more than anything, trying to get a feel for your level of experience with reading and playing and wanted to see how you would do under pressure. You probably wouldn't have to sightread bebop heads in treble clef on the gig.

[Scot]

Originally Posted by Liko

It's a cruise line at $500 a week, all expenses paid. If I didn't have to worry about food or rent, $500/week is hella spending cash.

Yeah, that's $500 BEFORE the purser catches up with you to pay your bar tab.

[bopeuph]

Thanks for all the tips, guys.

Truth is, I can read better than fine. I'm primarily a euphonium soloist--that's what I did all of my college career, but got my degree on bass so I was given play time on it. I compete on the international level on it. In short, there's not much that I haven't seen written around five lines.

My problem is actually getting around the electric bass. At the moment, I have to keep an eye on the frets when making a big jump, like some of these bop tunes do. I can get around fine on the upright, since that's what my major was on. If you miss a fret by just a bit, it's plainly obvious. And for some reason, when I'm trying to play an instrument I'm still uncomfortable with, my reading suffers. Like I said, it's something I will be working on.

Thanks for the pointers, Scot. They were very helpful.

I just found out there will be an upright bass on the ship I'm on. When I pick that axe up, it's just like the euph: I can read anything within my technical ability. If they let me play that during a good deal of tunes, I can work on the slab stuff a little more.

Yeah, the going to port stuff sounds great, tasting the foods and local cultures, which I will definitely do, but I really decided to do this job so I could worry about improving on all three of the aforementioned instruments in my spare time and not have to worry about rent.

Nick