BAD habbits????

[jay_1_2_3_]

i can afford lessons at the moment and havent had any, im a few weeks new to bass, and im teaching myself with the lifeless hand of a book...problem with this is all books say is what to play in terms of tabs and i could just get that off the internet, but nowhere says how you should play it in terms of what your hands should look like and how to position your hands etc.....so for now can you bass experts out there tell me what bad habits are out there i should avoid, so i dont go down any wrong roads....cheers

[fearceol]

There is a lot of info on technique for both hands ( the "floating thumb" is great for the plucking hand IMO ) in the "stickys" at the top of this forum.


Some good habits to develop would be :

1. Keep both wrists as straight as possible.

2. Keep the thumb of the fretting hand at the back of the neck and in line with the index and middle fingers.

3. Dont squeeze the neck too hard - just enough to get a clear note. A small amount of pressure is all that' needed.

4. When fretting use one finger per fret. You will need to develop strength in the pinkie for this.

It's explained here :
http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bas...ique/fretting/


5. When plucking (finger style ) use the index and middle fingers alternately.

6. Use the floating thumb technique , as mentioned above.


Hope this helps.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by fearceol

There is a lot of info on technique for both hands ( the "floating thumb" is great for the plucking hand IMO ) in the "stickys" at the top of this forum.

This is a list of all of the "popular theories of bass technique" that abound on this forum

Some good habits to develop would be :

1. Keep both wrists as straight as possible.

I wear my bass up high so I have freedom in the lowest positions on the lowest strings with my fretting hand. As the bass gets higher my plucking wrist gets more of a Z bend to it. Been doing it for years, it's natural and comfortable and I have plenty of plucking power.

2. Keep the thumb of the fretting hand at the back of the neck and in line with the index and middle fingers.

You would be better to keep your thumb opposite your middle and ring fingers and on the back of the neck. Do not let your thumb creep up over the edge of the fingerboard. Having your thumb farther back towards your index finger results in some bad leverage and lost fretting power and string to fret contact. Tone will suffer.

3. Dont squeeze the neck too hard - just enough to get a clear note. A small amount of pressure is all that' needed.

You shouldn't need to squeeze the neck at all if you are fretting just behind the wire. Your arm should be pulling the neck back and cantilevering the instrument against your belly. Power does not come from the finger joints.

4. When fretting use one finger per fret. You will need to develop strength in the pinkie for this.

Or you can use 1 2 3+4 in the lower positions. Double bass players have been doing it for years and may electric bass players do too. One finger per fret is by no means the rule and in lower positions I don't think it makes much sense anyway.

It's explained here :
http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bas...ique/fretting/

5. When plucking (finger style ) use the index and middle fingers alternately.

Or use whichever finger connects the notes and makes it musical. I use my index, middle, ring, thumb and I rake strings too. Sometimes I alternate, sometimes I don't.

6. Use the floating thumb technique , as mentioned above.

If your playing is so sloppy that you need to slide your thumb all over the strings to mute them you should be practicing slower to make it clean.

Hope this helps.

Good habits would be seek out instruction, practice efficiently and with a goal in mind (ie noodling while watching TV is not practicing) and play with as many people as possible.

[steve21]

my only bad habit is smoking crack while playing.









I desperately wish there was a smiley to indicate the 100% jokingness of this post.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by steve21

my only bad habit is smoking crack while playing.

I desperately wish there was a smiley to indicate the 100% jokingness of this post.

I used to be a chain smoker but I quit because they're too hard to light.



*Buh dum pish!*

[StyleOverShow]

I think hand positions are the most important to learn because you won't have to unlearn bad habits. Fingers should be at right angles to the strings, particularly with the fret hand. That puts your thumb behind the neck and "the pinch" becomes a natural position.

The plucking hand, can move around a bit, particularly when you are trying to get new sounds.

[fearceol]

To " Onlyclave " : I notice I've been quoted off the face of the earth.


The OP was asking for advice on technique. I gave my advice, i.e. the advice that works for me. After all I can only speak for myself.

While I agree there is no such thing as "correct" technique, I was merely stating what works for me. The OP may not accept this advice and go along with yours. That's his/her choice.


FWIW I think the advice in the stickys is good advice, dont you ?

And in case you did n't know : "nothing is written in stone".



Anyway who'd take advice from someone who tries to light chains ??

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

If your playing is so sloppy that you need to slide your thumb all over the strings to mute them you should be practicing slower to make it clean.

Tell that to Todd Johnson He has his own forum here.

[spindizzy]

[quote=onlyclave;5992212]If your playing is so sloppy that you need to slide your thumb all over the strings to mute them you should be practicing slower to make it clean.quote]

Ya had to go and say that. Although I didn't quite understand the point of your post (it was lost in all those quotes IMHO) but to indicate that folks who utilize FT as part of thier technical arsenal needed to be less sloppy is betraying your complete lack of understanding of either the technique or the importance of a total set of techical methods that should be a part of every bass players tool set.

It always amazes me how some folks come in here spoiling for a fight and willing to set themselves up as experts when clearly they are not. I can assure that after 40 years of playing, teaching and continuous exploration of the bass family of instruments I am not in the least "sloppy". I suggest you go through the FT sticky and read each and every post. I suggest that you then find each and every post concerning FT in Todd's forum. I suggest you seek out every Gary Willis YouTube instruction about right hand technique and then I suggest you make an attempt to use the technique sufficiently that you can speak from a factual stand point and not out of a desire to pontificate from your little room someplace.

The posters replying to the OP before had made a serious attempt to provide the OP with as solid and postive recommendations as they could. As one of those posters pointed out to you earlier it is up to the reader to decide what they wish to utilize and what they wish not to. To suggest that one should not at least check out a technique that clearly has the praises of dozens of players here and is utilized by multiple well respective players all over the globe is most irresponsible.

This is the sort of turn in a thread that has me coming to TB less and less these days. Shame really as many of us here have simply attempted to pass on what we have learned the hard way to you younger folks (and I am only guessing your age at this point but I would be even more disappointed if you were a veteran making these statements).

No smiley here.

Spin

[onlyclave]

Wow. I can't believe people are so sensitive about floating thumb.

My response with all of the quotations was just a reaction to the laundry list of 'Popular Things to Say on Talkbass Forums' which includes learn theory, learn modes, learn arpeggios, use one finger per fret, keep your wrists straight, etc.

If you have a problem with the fact that I think floating your thumb around the strings is inefficient, sloppy and indicative of a deeper lying issue (and I don't care if Todd Johnson and Gary Willis make a living teaching it) then I guess it is exactly that: Your problem. Seek counseling, adjust your beads, do what you need to so that you can cope.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Wow. I can't believe people are so sensitive about floating thumb.

My response with all of the quotations was just a reaction to the laundry list of 'Popular Things to Say on Talkbass Forums' which includes learn theory, learn modes, learn arpeggios, use one finger per fret, keep your wrists straight, etc.

If you have a problem with the fact that I think floating your thumb around the strings is inefficient, sloppy and indicative of a deeper lying issue (and I don't care if Todd Johnson and Gary Willis make a living teaching it) then I guess it is exactly that: Your problem. Seek counseling, adjust your beads, do what you need to so that you can cope.

I have no problem what so ever with FT ( and no problem with other people not liking it ). As I said it's what works for me.

As for "popular things to say on TB" : Ever thought WHY they are popular ? I'll tell you -; because people find that these "popular" things work for them, and want to share them with others as I was trying to do in my above post.

Ok, so you dont care what Gary Willis or Todd Johnson teaches, that's fair enough, but it does n't mean that it's bad advice.

I think you 're the one who needs to seek counseling........ to control your apparent bias and lack of tact.

[spindizzy]

Then I guess I have to say put up or shut up. I will show you my technique why don't you show me yours. If at the end of the day your are able to teach me ANYTHING I will retracked my criticism of your post and stop using FT forever. Are you close to MI we could do this in person. How about in front of an audience of our peers. Perhaps you simple wish to show us your superior technique and compare it to the more well known players you mention in your response (as you may not consider me worthy of comparison to your obviously superior knowledge and playing skills).

It seems that folks can flame anything here without the least bit of evidence (which includes your less than informative profile) of their qualifications to criticize. Even some of the most controversial posters here are careful to either qualify thier input as personal opinion and accept that personal preference rules the day but never do see them suggest that they somehow are arbiters of the truth and that there is only one way to bass heaven. You however have suggested that even those who are well known for their prowess are merely offering up opinions and should not be taken seriously as you clearly are more qualify than we mear mortals.

It is truely not a matter of sensitivity, like you made a harmless little joke at our expense, you made a universally deniable statement of truth and therefore have rendered both the statement and your input false. At the end of the day, which is why I suggested you at least read the stickies thoroughly and try the technique with an open mind, it is a matter of personal opinion and preference and almost every post in the FT sticky ends with this sentiment. I thought at very least you would see, if you care to get past your own rhetoric, that it is a technique that you can take or leave but really should not cast stones at.

By the way how many strings are on your bass? How long have you been playing? Who have you played with? Do you have examples that would establish your ability sufficiently to justify our even reading your posts? Fill out your profile, including your age, schooling and/or professional/educational standing or any other history to provide context to your posts. Mine is filled out but if you would like to hear examples of both my compositions and my playing you can go to Kompoz.com and search for member Spindizzy to hear the few that are there. You can also visit the website in my profile to hear music from back in the seventies when I was first exploring the use of FT on a four string.

You can also search my posts here where you will find that I often recommend expanding your mind to include playing with everything and every technique you can master. I almost never seek to limit folks but rather prefer to expand thier thinking. You seem to seek the oposite.

Spin

[fearceol]

"Onlyclave" has to be a "TROLL". There's no other excuse I can think of for that attitude.


To the OP : I've given you advice on technique that IMO is good and works for me. I hope you find something useful in it. Best of luck with your bass playing and fair play to you for seeking advice on technique.

[Rattman]

Ugly... very ugly, hateful thread... insecurities abound here.

[Jonyak]

Originally Posted by spindizzy

Then I guess I have to say put up or shut up. I will show you my technique why don't you show me yours. If at the end of the day your are able to teach me ANYTHING I will retracked my criticism of your post and stop using FT forever. Are you close to MI we could do this in person. How about in front of an audience of our peers. Perhaps you simple wish to show us your superior technique and compare it to the more well known players you mention in your response (as you may not consider me worthy of comparison to your obviously superior knowledge and playing skills).

It seems that folks can flame anything here without the least bit of evidence (which includes your less than informative profile) of their qualifications to criticize. Even some of the most controversial posters here are careful to either qualify thier input as personal opinion and accept that personal preference rules the day but never do see them suggest that they somehow are arbiters of the truth and that there is only one way to bass heaven. You however have suggested that even those who are well known for their prowess are merely offering up opinions and should not be taken seriously as you clearly are more qualify than we mear mortals.

It is truely not a matter of sensitivity, like you made a harmless little joke at our expense, you made a universally deniable statement of truth and therefore have rendered both the statement and your input false. At the end of the day, which is why I suggested you at least read the stickies thoroughly and try the technique with an open mind, it is a matter of personal opinion and preference and almost every post in the FT sticky ends with this sentiment. I thought at very least you would see, if you care to get past your own rhetoric, that it is a technique that you can take or leave but really should not cast stones at.

By the way how many strings are on your bass? How long have you been playing? Who have you played with? Do you have examples that would establish your ability sufficiently to justify our even reading your posts? Fill out your profile, including your age, schooling and/or professional/educational standing or any other history to provide context to your posts. Mine is filled out but if you would like to hear examples of both my compositions and my playing you can go to Kompoz.com and search for member Spindizzy to hear the few that are there. You can also visit the website in my profile to hear music from back in the seventies when I was first exploring the use of FT on a four string.

You can also search my posts here where you will find that I often recommend expanding your mind to include playing with everything and every technique you can master. I almost never seek to limit folks but rather prefer to expand thier thinking. You seem to seek the oposite.

Spin

my penis is bigger than yours.

you attacked him.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by Rattman

Ugly... very ugly, hateful thread... insecurities abound here.

I'm waiting for the date to be named so I can get tickets to go and see "The Battle of the Basses" between "Onlyclave" and "Spindizzy".

[Vincent P]

Not to get off topic with the battle of the bands but, Jay I would also suggest using a mirror. May sound stupid but, this will help you see from a different angle your positioning and hand/finger movements.

I also suggest getting a metronome, and invaluable tool for learning timing.

[spindizzy]

Originally Posted by Vincent P

Not to get off topic with the battle of the bands but, Jay I would also suggest using a mirror. May sound stupid but, this will help you see from a different angle your positioning and hand/finger movements.

I also suggest getting a metronome, and invaluable tool for learning timing.

Great suggestions. Thanks for getting this thread back on track.

I might at this point add that it is helpful to study the videos that Gary Willis has posted on YouTube particularly the section on right hand technique. He covers the the major muscle groups involved, how to get into the proper positions and the importance of slow practice to achieve your goals. The first segment is posted here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u82A7...eature=related

He also uses ramps (which I have never used and have no personal knowledge of but can appreciate the theory and can see how particularly new players might benefit from thier use) and explains the rationale behind them in this video series.

For efficient and sustainable techniques for the right hand I highly recommend studying these videos. You must decide for yourself what is useful and what is not but a better set of starting lessons in techniques I have not yet found.

Spin

[Chipsonfire]

Originally Posted by Vincent P

I also suggest getting a metronome, and invaluable tool for learning timing.

Great advice. Timing is so important and so under emphasized. If you can't afford a real one, you can use one online here .

[Gladowsky]

Originally Posted by fearceol

Tell that to Todd Johnson He has his own forum here.

As well as Jaco. On his video he states that left hand muting is extremely important to "not let the bass make noise".

Also, he as well as several others use(d) extended fingering at times (see book Fingerboard Alchemy), i.e. 4 fingers covering 5 frets. I've been doing this for years and my teacher, a prominant local jazz bassist has as well. For positions 1-4 I will often use 1-2-4. I personally don't care much for the sound of those positions as much so rarely play there except for special effect.