Bad instructions on slapping everywhere?

[Lunatique]

I keep reading from various sources (books on bass playing, websites, videos) that when slapping, you're supposed to hit directly on the string with your thumb and then quickly rebound off and let it ring, but I'm finding out that it doesn't work for the higher strings. In fact once you fret the higher notes on the lower strings, it starts to lose effectiveness too. That method only seems to work when striking open strings and lower fretted notes. What I'm finding out for myself is that I need to just "scrape" the side of the string as I strike down, instead of hitting directly "on" the string, which actually is like a downward pluck almost. That is the only way for me to get a meaty hit with clarity and metallic resonance that a good slap is supposed to have. my suspicion was confirmed by this instructional video: http://www.cyberschoolofbass.com/lesson6/

So why do so many teaching sources tell people to hit directly on the string and then bounce off quickly?

[EADG mx]

try hitting down and through the string


also slap only works up to a certain point on the fretboard.. that's normal

[elpelotero]

this is a good argument to favor going through the string over the technique of recoiling. I think it just takes more practice. I find it harder to do and to be a slower technique.

[mutedeity]

You have to keep in mind that different strings are going to have different responses. Saying it doesn't work for you could be due to that you haven't really figured out those differences in response and adjusted your technique accordingly. Saying that this approach is wrong or bad instruction is not accurate though. I personally use that approach for all strings if I am using that particular method.

There are a lot of players that slap by playing through the string, I use this approach as well, particularly for double thumb playing. However this is a different approach, and it is not true to say that one is better than the other necessarily. Playing through has a different sound to bouncing and different application in my experience. So the solution in my opinion is to reassess what you are doing with the bounce technique on the higher strings rather than say that it is bad instruction.

[EADG mx]

While playing the "bouncing style" or "Flea style" (45 degree angle thumb) you may get a different tone but I also found this technique incredibly sloppy and limiting, especially if one wants to get into double thumbing later on. That said I recommend starting perpendicular as to not get into bad habits.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

While playing the "bouncing style" or "Flea style" (45 degree angle thumb) you may get a different tone but I also found this technique incredibly sloppy and limiting, especially if one wants to get into double thumbing later on. That said I recommend starting perpendicular as to not get into bad habits.

That is a sign you need to practice it more, not that the technique is a fault. There are plenty of players out there using that technique that contradict any suggestion it's a bad technique. Norwood Fisher, Doug Wimbish, Dave Larue.. etc.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

That is a sign you need to practice it more, not that the technique is a fault. There are plenty of players out there using that technique that contradict any suggestion it's a bad technique. Norwood Fisher, Doug Wimbish, Dave Larue.. etc.

I agree to an extent

I played this style for about 5 years. I'm no stranger to it. In my experience, yes, you can improve on it, but there's only so accurate you can get with it due to the hand position and angle of thumb.

I'm not saying it's a bad technique, it's just more difficult to work with in getting a clean sound imo.



edit: Even while it can be clean, I still maintain that it's inefficient and can be limiting (depending on what you want to do with it of course)

[Kobaia]

1'd

roflcopter

[elpelotero]

For the record, not that it matters too much, I took a private lesson w. Dave Larue a few months ago and he slap through the string and bounces. So, he does both. I think this is the best way...learn everything you can b/c each has a unique applcation.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by elpelotero

For the record, not that it matters too much, I took a private lesson w. Dave Larue a few months ago and he slap through the string and bounces. So, he does both. I think this is the best way...learn everything you can b/c each has a unique applcation.

Agreed. I was pointing out though, that when Larue does play the bounce method he is accurate. I am not advocating one way over the other myself, but I am pointing out that one is not better or worse than the other as a stand alone technique, just different in application and tone in most cases.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

Agreed. I was pointing out though, that when Larue does play the bounce method he is accurate. I am not advocating one way over the other myself, but I am pointing out that one is not better or worse than the other as a stand alone technique, just different in application and tone in most cases.

Very true but I still think that the pros of learning parallel thumb greatly outweigh those of learning perpendicular (45 degree)

parallel can do everything perpendicular can (plus more) while perpendicular cannot do anywhere near what parallel can do

I admit there is a difference in tone but imo it's not really worth learning perpendicular just for the slightly different tone.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

Very true but I still think that the pros of learning parallel thumb greatly outweigh those of learning perpendicular (45 degree)

parallel can do everything perpendicular can (plus more) while perpendicular cannot do anywhere near what parallel can do

I admit there is a difference in tone but imo it's not really worth learning perpendicular just for the slightly different tone.

Yes, but the thing I would like to point out is that that is your subjective opinion. You are entitled to it, but it's not a universal that because you see it that way that everyone else does or that one technique is necessarily better than the other. It might be better for you, but that doesn't mean it's better for everyone.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

Yes, but the thing I would like to point out is that that is your subjective opinion. You are entitled to it, but it's not a universal that because you see it that way that everyone else does or that one technique is necessarily better than the other. It might be better for you, but that doesn't mean it's better for everyone.

Saying the change in tone is not worth learning both techniques is my opinion.


This is bordering on fact:

the pros of learning parallel thumb greatly outweigh those of learning perpendicular (45 degree)

This is just plain fact:

parallel can do everything perpendicular can (plus more) while perpendicular cannot do anywhere near what parallel can do

[MarkMcCombs]

first, I'm not great slapper. However, here's what I've noticed, feel free to chime in and tell me what you think of my discovery...

first, my wife gets annoyed hearing the pings, etc., when I slap, even though I'm playing thru headphones (she's hearing it um-amplified, and trying to sleep, God bless her). One night I was practicing, in our room as per normal, with headphones, and I couldn't resist doing some slapping. So, I did it really lightly and softly. 2 great things came out of this.....1) she didn't wake up, and 2) I noticed that my tone, accuracy, EVERYTHING, was improved, 10x! Maybe I should have known better, but I think there's a misconception out there that slapping is hitting the bejesus out of the string/instrument. My experience is that this is terrible (don't know how Flea does it, but I love the guy), and better to hit not hard enough vs. too hard. Also, you must be relaxed when playing in general, but especially when slapping.

My .02....

MLM

[mutedeity]

"parallel can do everything perpendicular can (plus more) while perpendicular cannot do anywhere near what parallel can do"

It's not a fact at all, actually. It's just your opinion. Mine is different, so unless you are here to tell me you are right and I am wrong, in which case you need to make a pretty good argument, it's just a matter of opinion.

[bassandbeyond]

The "bouncing off the string" technique does work on the higher strings, but you have to hit relatively harder and with more precise aim on the D and G strings to get a good slap tone, due to the higher tension and narrower "target" posed by these strings. This is especially true if the action on your bass is high.

In my opinion, the "slapping through the string" technique is more akin to the sound produced by simply plucking the string very hard (ala Stanley Clarke). It's a good percussive sound, but is a slightly different tone than the slap tone described above.

As for the angle of the thumb relative to the strings, that seems to be a matter of personal preference. I have seen great slappers approach the string from all different angles.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

"parallel can do everything perpendicular can (plus more) while perpendicular cannot do anywhere near what parallel can do"

It's not a fact at all, actually. It's just your opinion. Mine is different, so unless you are here to tell me you are right and I am wrong, in which case you need to make a pretty good argument, it's just a matter of opinion.

I'm talking specifically about double thumbing, sorry if I didn't make that clear

Here is my point (I hope it's clear):

fact is, no you can't do double thumbing with your thumb in the perpendicular slap position without shifting your thumb into parallel. You just can't do the motion unless you're in parallel position.

That said, why not learn parallel from the start? You can still do all of the same lines you would be doing with perpendicular, PLUS it opens up so many doors for you if you want to start incorporating double thumbing into your work.

Maybe fact was too strong of a word, but I do not see how anyone can disagree with that. Lets say fact until proved otherwise, or assumption.


Does this make sense?

[Slax]

I feel given the chance, and the information, do what will further excell you playing further with a technique. I know I've learned some that will hinder me in some ways, which leads me to harsh practice to get the tone I want, but will come in time.

It's a battle of "quick and easy" versus "right and true". Basically, do what's right for you at the time and what you can.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by Slax

I feel given the chance, and the information, do what will further excell you playing further with a technique. I know I've learned some that will hinder me in some ways, which leads me to harsh practice to get the tone I want, but will come in time.

It's a battle of "quick and easy" versus "right and true". Basically, do what's right for you at the time and what you can.

+1

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

I'm talking specifically about double thumbing, sorry if I didn't make that clear

Here is my point (I hope it's clear):

fact is, no you can't do double thumbing with your thumb in the perpendicular slap position without shifting your thumb into parallel. You just can't do the motion unless you're in parallel position.

That said, why not learn parallel from the start? You can still do all of the same lines you would be doing with perpendicular, PLUS it opens up so many doors for you if you want to start incorporating double thumbing into your work.

Maybe fact was too strong of a word, but I do not see how anyone can disagree with that. Lets say fact until proved otherwise, or assumption.


Does this make sense?

I would say that you can do some things with one that you can't with the other and that that is true for both techniques. Which is why I disagree with the statement that I highlighted. I'll tell you as someone that uses both techniques that it is a fact that one technique is not the other just as tapped arpeggios are different to playing sweep arpeggios with the thumb and index finger, starting with the fact that they sound different.