Bad setup, bad technique - and metal

[MysticMichael]

I've been meaning to get the following off my chest for quite some time:

While I don't mean to dis anyone's favorite style of music, I do wish to point out that all you metalheads who have been led to believe that the best way to achieve your loud, crunchy, aggressive sound is to use those super heavy-gauge strings, raise the action on your instrument(s) sky-high, then dig in for all it's worth - you may be doing yourselves more harm than you realize...

The fact is, this combination of high-stress instrument set-up and high-stress technique is a perfect recipe for developing painful chronic repetitive stress injuries in your wrists and hands down the road. Because your set-up actually prevents you from achieving a good tone with a more relaxed, natural technique, it forces you to compensate in a way that can hurt you over time. Ironically, while the cable-wire strings and extreme saddle height (and/or lack of neck relief) offers greater attack, it tends to work against the natural resonance and sustain you might otherwise achieve. And digging in on the strings too hard can definitely choke your tone...

I single out heavy metal in particular (even though this applies generally), simply because there seems to be this sort of macho/masochistic cultural thing going on in metal that equates physical effort (or pain) directly with musical impact. Hence, this type of bad set-up & technique advice is being specifically recommended and passed down from one player to the next, often in ignorance (especially among the very young players).

For those of you who know the risks, yet choose this set-up & technique because you prefer it, good luck with that. I hope you're able to avoid experiencing any issues with it.

But for those others of you who may not have known any better, a far better way to achieve optimum tone & volume is to let your gear do the hard work - because that's what it was made to do: Lighten up on your gauge of strings, lower your action, and lighten up on your attack - then turn up the volume on your amp. Your hands will remain healthier longer, and they'll remain more relaxed and nimble - thus allowing you to play more easily - and therefore play better - as an added bonus...

MM

[distrot]

I play in a metal band, well grindcore and if you are really serious about hitting sonic speeds you quickly learn to improve your technique. I don't know your personal situation but I have found that most metal musicians that are serious about improving are some of the most diligent and technique aware people around.

As for the machismo attitude, its easy to stereotype any genre but There are bass players doing amazing things in every genre, so lets keep our minds and ears open.

[Sarbecue Boss]

I would say from personal experience bigger strings = better tone, especially if you have good, low action and play with correct technique. In every musical situation i'v been in, from university jazz bands to death metal bands, thicker strings have given me better tone. i don't know how much this effects how i hear certain string gauges but I play an active tobias bass. If you have gotten different result let me know

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by Sarbecue Boss

I would say from personal experience bigger strings = better tone, especially if you have good, low action and play with correct technique. In every musical situation i'v been in, from university jazz bands to death metal bands, thicker strings have given me better tone. i don't know how much this effects how i hear certain string gauges but I play an active tobias bass. If you have gotten different result let me know

Lower action actually negatively affects tone. The closer the strings are to the fretboard, the less room they have to vibrate freely, thus the sustain is dampened slightly. The fattest tones I've ever come across are on basses set up with very thick strings and medium to high actions. Contrary to popular opinion, you can still play these basses and be perfectly safe; just look at upright bass. The tension and action on those strings can be way higher than anything electric has offered, and yet you can still play an upright bass safely and effectively with safe techique - light touch, straight wrists, and being smart about not overplaying.

[MammaryVest]

i think the OP should be a little more specific when talking about the set-up he is referring to. Having the factory amount of neck relief, and a string height that is high enough so that there is no fret buzz at all is the only way to get the optimum amount of sustain and natural low-end. Anyone who sets up their bass like this or higher will eventually develop their strength, and injury will not be an issue. It's just like when most new players break a lot of strings because of poor technique. After playing with any set-up the player adapts to it. I don't really think there is a "wrong way" to play, as long as you stick to it.

[Asomodai]

Meh its the exact opposite to me, I love a Medium action with Ultra Light strings.

[Sarbecue Boss]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Lower action actually negatively affects tone. The closer the strings are to the fretboard, the less room they have to vibrate freely, thus the sustain is dampened slightly. The fattest tones I've ever come across are on basses set up with very thick strings and medium to high actions. Contrary to popular opinion, you can still play these basses and be perfectly safe; just look at upright bass. The tension and action on those strings can be way higher than anything electric has offered, and yet you can still play an upright bass safely and effectively with safe techique - light touch, straight wrists, and being smart about not overplaying.

it seems like it shouldn't matter how close the strings are the the fretboard unless you play hard enough to cause them to hit the frets

+1 to the upright comment, I play an upright and i didn't even think about it

[the_fonz]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

And digging in on the strings too hard can definitely choke your tone...

what if the choked tone is your favorite tone?

[LowG]

with the first post. Play the bass however it feels right, and use good technique. I am mostly an upright player and even on upright I like to have the strings higher than most. I like to be able to dig in and like the increased dynamic range I get from having more room for the oscillation of the string. It simply feels good to pluck the string hard.

[JimmyM]

All bass playing can be potentially harmful, not just with high action/thick strings. You can use a .020-.075 set of strings with them resting on the frets, and if you have poor technique (and sometimes even if you don't), you can get injuries. Just use common sense, avoid putting your wrists in contortions, and remember the old joke:

"Doc, it hurts when I do this."

"Well, don't do that!"

[Risen Ashes]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

I've been meaning to get the following off my chest for quite some time:

do wish to point out that all you metalheads who have been led to believe that the best way to achieve your loud, crunchy, aggressive sound is to use those super heavy-gauge strings, raise the action on your instrument(s) sky-high, then dig in for all it's worth - you may be doing yourselves more harm than you realize...

But for those others of you who may not have known any better, a far better way to achieve optimum tone & volume is to let your gear do the hard work - because that's what it was made to do: Lighten up on your gauge of strings, lower your action, and lighten up on your attack - then turn up the volume on your amp.
MM

I see what your saying from a health standpoint-but I guess thats for ignorant players...but I disagree with the higher gauge strings as a reason to be cool or whatever...It become s a must-when not in STANDARD A440 TUNING. A lot of modern metalheads both guitarists and bassist are using these thicker bigger gauges because they are downtuning 1 full step, a step and a half or 3 steps down. In this case the higher strings are needed...As to why to do this it's personal taste it's not for everybody. I like bands like In Flames, God Forbid, Shadows Fall and it's not only for metal but true in other genres...the point is you achieve different characteristics at those tunings that these musicians prefer. Anyways that's my 2 cents

[HaVIC5]

As with everything health related, just be aware of your body. Injuries happen, but 9 times out of 10 with regards to bassists its you and your bad technique, not your bass/forces of nature.

[nastyn8c]

Nice. I was of the same mindset for a while, always playing way too hard, action too high, etc. I'm glad someone talked to me, because I had only been playing for a few years and I was already experiencing serious pain. You can really hurt yourself - and your sound - if you aren't careful.

[machine gewehr]

For 2 years,I tore up the strings,left string marks on the fretboard and headbanged.

Then I got myself a wrist injury,started to listen to more jazz,watched instructionals and understood what is what.Now I pluck lightly,press my strings lightly and still can headbang.

[Christian Waiau]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

I've been meaning to get the following off my chest for quite some time:

While I don't mean to dis anyone's favorite style of music, I do wish to point out that all you metalheads who have been led to believe that the best way to achieve your loud, crunchy, aggressive sound is to use those super heavy-gauge strings, raise the action on your instrument(s) sky-high, then dig in for all it's worth - you may be doing yourselves more harm than you realize...

The fact is, this combination of high-stress instrument set-up and high-stress technique is a perfect recipe for developing painful chronic repetitive stress injuries in your wrists and hands down the road. Because your set-up actually prevents you from achieving a good tone with a more relaxed, natural technique, it forces you to compensate in a way that can hurt you over time. Ironically, while the cable-wire strings and extreme saddle height (and/or lack of neck relief) offers greater attack, it tends to work against the natural resonance and sustain you might otherwise achieve. And digging in on the strings too hard can definitely choke your tone...

I single out heavy metal in particular (even though this applies generally), simply because there seems to be this sort of macho/masochistic cultural thing going on in metal that equates physical effort (or pain) directly with musical impact. Hence, this type of bad set-up & technique advice is being specifically recommended and passed down from one player to the next, often in ignorance (especially among the very young players).

For those of you who know the risks, yet choose this set-up & technique because you prefer it, good luck with that. I hope you're able to avoid experiencing any issues with it.

But for those others of you who may not have known any better, a far better way to achieve optimum tone & volume is to let your gear do the hard work - because that's what it was made to do: Lighten up on your gauge of strings, lower your action, and lighten up on your attack - then turn up the volume on your amp. Your hands will remain healthier longer, and they'll remain more relaxed and nimble - thus allowing you to play more easily - and therefore play better - as an added bonus...

MM

"super heavy-gauge strings"

- i would love to use a standard set of 45-100 but there is no way in hell i would be able to get a tight sounding low C from a 100...

"raise the action on your instrument(s) sky-high"

- seriously.. this is the first ive heard about making my action high.... ive never wanted or even heard of someone else wanting high action... i searched this forum and most people here say to get really low action....

"then dig in for all it's worth"
- if you say that your tone doesnt sound different when you use a lighter or harder attack then something is wrong with your amp... or your bass is way too muddy..


anothing thing i might add... people come to metal or rock or punk shows to have fun... bands want to put on a show... nothing is more borring then being "that one guy" in the band that is so boring to watch that you get distracted. band put on a show... just because it LOOKS like some people are playing insanely hard doesnt mean they actually are..


IMO pro(as in touring bands)metal musicians have VERY good technique... the angles your wrist and arms are suppose to be and the same as anyone playing their bass mile high.. its just they might be crouching or need to put the rest of their body in a wierd position to do it... yeah the rest of your body gets shafted but its for the show it comes with the part...




just like in any genre there are people that know and DONT know how to play.... and just like in any genre... unless you're in it.. you dont know EXACTLY why things are done like they are or even have all the fact. but there is that chance that even if it looks wrong there is a chance it still works just as well...

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by Risen Ashes

I see what your saying from a health standpoint-but I guess thats for ignorant players...but I disagree with the higher gauge strings as a reason to be cool or whatever...It become s a must-when not in STANDARD A440 TUNING. A lot of modern metalheads both guitarists and bassist are using these thicker bigger gauges because they are downtuning 1 full step, a step and a half or 3 steps down. In this case the higher strings are needed...As to why to do this it's personal taste it's not for everybody. I like bands like In Flames, God Forbid, Shadows Fall and it's not only for metal but true in other genres...the point is you achieve different characteristics at those tunings that these musicians prefer. Anyways that's my 2 cents

Yes, that's a point well-taken - and one that I had considered before starting this thread. Granted, you have to use heavier-gauge strings if you detune. People should just be smart about it, that's all.

Heavy-gauge strings alone will not necessarily cause injuries - as long as you keep the action within reason, wear the bass high enough so you can reach the frets easily without straining your wrists (I know - rockers think it looks so uncool ), and use other common-sense measures to enable you to play relatively stress-free...

Rock on!

MM

[Gawd]

I disagree with the original post.. most metal players I know, including myself pay a lot of attention to technique to aquire accuracy and speed..

maybe if you could clarify what type of metal you are refering to? because these days there are countless sub-genres of metal.

having heavy strings is a must in a lot of metal bands, since they usually tend to tune down a step, or to drop C tuning. you need heavy strings so that they don't flop around, and just because the bass needs to be able to be powerful.

[Ground Pounder]

I understand a lot of your points, MM, but I wanted to pipe in here on the broader scale of this discussion.

I single out heavy metal in particular (even though this applies generally), simply because there seems to be this sort of macho/masochistic cultural thing going on in metal that equates physical effort (or pain) directly with musical impact. Hence, this type of bad set-up & technique advice is being specifically recommended and passed down from one player to the next, often in ignorance (especially among the very young players).

Metal, by nature, is a very visual form of music. For most metal bassists, like myself, before we knew names like Jaco, Wooten, Patitucci, and Jamerson, we knew - and saw - guys like Lemmy, Geezer, Cliff, and Gene. We weren't brought up listening to the sweet groove of funk, soul, R&B, and jazz. We were watching Ace Frehley play a smoking, burning Les Paul, watching Cliff Burton and Tom Araya smash and whip 3-foot-long manes wildly, watching Tommy Lee play a drum solo upside-down in mid air, with exploding flash pots and stage props.

When most of us decided to become bass players (and guys, let's be honest), it wasn't because we found some deep, profound love for the low end. It was because we wanted to be the guy pounding his fist, banging his head, leading an all-out chaos-driven crowd into a maniacal frenzy of madness. We didn't care what we played, we just wanted to play F'in Metal!

Metal, as a form of entertainment, is about more than impressive chops and musicianship. It's about the show, the crowd, the frenzy, and the chaos. That shouldn't come as any surprise, because it's the same in all types of popular music. That's why most folks who listen to metal would prefer to watch Gene Simmons breath fire and spit blood, than to watch Billy Sheehan play a 6 minute bass solo.

Metal audiences do, in fact, equate physical energy with the musical impact, and the aggressive style of our music demands nothing less than maximum effort. It's like diechris said - no one wants to watch "the guy" who is what I like to call a metal masseuse. Sure, the 5% of the crowd that are musicians may appreciate your chops and technique, while the other 95% will probably take your set as an opportunity to go get another beer before the wildly insane band after you takes the stage.

I'm not saying that it's contradictory to learn good technique if you play metal. What I do think is that learning good technique and learning how to excite and ignite a crowd makes you a better performer than being able to stand on the "X" and just let your hands to the talking.

Just my 2 cents, keep it heavy!

\m/

[MammaryVest]

Originally Posted by Ground Pounder

I understand a lot of your points, MM, but I wanted to pipe in here on the broader scale of this discussion.



Metal, by nature, is a very visual form of music. For most metal bassists, like myself, before we knew names like Jaco, Wooten, Patitucci, and Jamerson, we knew - and saw - guys like Lemmy, Geezer, Cliff, and Gene. We weren't brought up listening to the sweet groove of funk, soul, R&B, and jazz. We were watching Ace Frehley play a smoking, burning Les Paul, watching Cliff Burton and Tom Araya smash and whip 3-foot-long manes wildly, watching Tommy Lee play a drum solo upside-down in mid air, with exploding flash pots and stage props.

When most of us decided to become bass players (and guys, let's be honest), it wasn't because we found some deep, profound love for the low end. It was because we wanted to be the guy pounding his fist, banging his head, leading an all-out chaos-driven crowd into a maniacal frenzy of madness. We didn't care what we played, we just wanted to play F'in Metal!

Metal, as a form of entertainment, is about more than impressive chops and musicianship. It's about the show, the crowd, the frenzy, and the chaos. That shouldn't come as any surprise, because it's the same in all types of popular music. That's why most folks who listen to metal would prefer to watch Gene Simmons breath fire and spit blood, than to watch Billy Sheehan play a 6 minute bass solo.

Metal audiences do, in fact, equate physical energy with the musical impact, and the aggressive style of our music demands nothing less than maximum effort. It's like diechris said - no one wants to watch "the guy" who is what I like to call a metal masseuse. Sure, the 5% of the crowd that are musicians may appreciate your chops and technique, while the other 95% will probably take your set as an opportunity to go get another beer before the wildly insane band after you takes the stage.

I'm not saying that it's contradictory to learn good technique if you play metal. What I do think is that learning good technique and learning how to excite and ignite a crowd makes you a better performer than being able to stand on the "X" and just let your hands to the talking.

Just my 2 cents, keep it heavy!

\m/

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Ground Pounder

I understand a lot of your points, MM, but I wanted to pipe in here on the broader scale of this discussion.



Metal, by nature, is a very visual form of music. For most metal bassists, like myself, before we knew names like Jaco, Wooten, Patitucci, and Jamerson, we knew - and saw - guys like Lemmy, Geezer, Cliff, and Gene. We weren't brought up listening to the sweet groove of funk, soul, R&B, and jazz. We were watching Ace Frehley play a smoking, burning Les Paul, watching Cliff Burton and Tom Araya smash and whip 3-foot-long manes wildly, watching Tommy Lee play a drum solo upside-down in mid air, with exploding flash pots and stage props.

When most of us decided to become bass players (and guys, let's be honest), it wasn't because we found some deep, profound love for the low end. It was because we wanted to be the guy pounding his fist, banging his head, leading an all-out chaos-driven crowd into a maniacal frenzy of madness. We didn't care what we played, we just wanted to play F'in Metal!

Metal, as a form of entertainment, is about more than impressive chops and musicianship. It's about the show, the crowd, the frenzy, and the chaos. That shouldn't come as any surprise, because it's the same in all types of popular music. That's why most folks who listen to metal would prefer to watch Gene Simmons breath fire and spit blood, than to watch Billy Sheehan play a 6 minute bass solo.

Metal audiences do, in fact, equate physical energy with the musical impact, and the aggressive style of our music demands nothing less than maximum effort. It's like diechris said - no one wants to watch "the guy" who is what I like to call a metal masseuse. Sure, the 5% of the crowd that are musicians may appreciate your chops and technique, while the other 95% will probably take your set as an opportunity to go get another beer before the wildly insane band after you takes the stage.

I'm not saying that it's contradictory to learn good technique if you play metal. What I do think is that learning good technique and learning how to excite and ignite a crowd makes you a better performer than being able to stand on the "X" and just let your hands to the talking.

Just my 2 cents, keep it heavy!

\m/

I think you hit it right on the head.