bass chords on jazz standards (or: making a bass/sax duo more interesting)

sleeplessknight · #1 05-01-2009, 01:16 PM

I know someone posted some YouTube links many moons ago to a guy who did them well, almost like a low, thuddy Joe Pass, but my Google-fu has failed me. Could anyone refresh my memory as to who this guy was? Also, if anyone could pass along their tips for making a jazz-standard sax/bass duo more harmonically interesting, that'd be awesome. I'm very comfortable with walking lines, etc, over jazz stuff, but there's always been some other instrument (guitar, keys, etc) helping out with the harmony and chords to support the soloist. I can't help but think that straight-up walking bass + sax might sound a little... hollow. Anyone else been in a similar situation?

--Lee

Ed Fuqua · #2 05-01-2009, 01:34 PM

Maybe you're talking about Mike Dimin?

Anyway, I very much disagree. If you're playing interesting involving lines and the saxophonist is playing interesting and engaging lines I GUARANTEE nobody is gonna be looking for somebody playing chords.

Check this CD out or if you can find the CD on FRESH SOUNDS NEW TALENT called THE DUO, which was recorded live at Sweet Basil...

LeonD · #3 05-02-2009, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindizzy

Original post revised.

For the record, I didn't see a problem with your original post.

LeonD

LeonD · #4 05-02-2009, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleeplessknight

Anyone else been in a similar situation?

I'd put myself in that place. I find myself in duo situations a lot. I like to add chords to add interest and change the sound from playing single note lines all the time.

I'm also beginning to work on solo chord melody type arrangements.

I'd agree that Mike Dimin's book is a good place to start. And if you really get into it, he's close enough (eastern NY) that you could sign up for a couple of private lessons.

I'd also look into chord construction, i.e. what specific notes are in a particular chord and out of those notes, which are the most important to play. And then different grips to play those chords.

We're close enough where we could get together (if you want to check out Mike's book, compare notes on chordal playing or just plain jam).

LeonD

sleeplessknight · #5 05-02-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonD

For the record, I didn't see a problem with your original post.

LeonD

Seconded. I'm familiar with Ed through a lot of his posts over on the DB side, and I personally am not impressed or cowed by his publishing credentials. His credentials as "Keith Jarrett attitude consultant" far overshadow his (admittedly significant) musical prowess. I am grateful for his distilled opinion on this matter, but the animus laced throughout greatly lessens the impact.

Leon, I'd love to jam with you sometime brother, I'll definitely check out Todd's work (I saw some of his YouTube videos... damn!) and see what's up. As the cool kids say, 'holla' to a fellow Masshole bassist!

Asher S · #6 05-02-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleeplessknight

I can't help but think that straight-up walking bass + sax might sound a little... hollow.
--Lee

Check out Sonny Rollins, Night at the Village Vanguard: sax, drums, bass trio. Classic...

funkifiedsoul · #7 05-02-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher S

Check out Sonny Rollins, Night at the Village Vanguard: sax, drums, bass trio. Classic...

+1

JonathanD · #8 05-02-2009, 10:52 AM

I personally find that 2 note chords work out very well in these situations. I often use the 3rd to give the chords a definite voice. I have not been able to make 3 note chords sound good for me. I am a saxophonist and bassist. I have recently resorted to using a VB99 with Midi pickup which ads another layer to my sound. I find it to be incredibly helpful. Best of luck.

Jonathan

Phil Smith · #9 05-02-2009, 09:03 PM

Check out the record "Atmos" with Jan Garbarek on Sax and Miroslav Vitous on bass for but one example of what's possible and I don't think Miroslav played chords on any of the selections but he doesn't have to cuz he's a badass.

Playing chords behind the sax isn't going to necessarily make things more interesting, you and the sax player knowing the melody and the harmony will.

Mike Dimin · #10 05-04-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonD

I'd agree that Mike Dimin's book is a good place to start. And if you really get into it, he's close enough (eastern NY) that you could sign up for a couple of private lessons.

LeonD

Leon, Thanks for the kind words. Just to let you know I have a new book out, "The Art of Solo Bass" published by Mel Bay. More info here:

http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?Pr...v&next=RDR0263

Mike

HaVIC5 · #11 05-04-2009, 08:50 AM

If you play chords too much you just sound like a mediocre guitar player, not a bassist. It's a nice texture to add for novelty interest, but it can get old fast unless you have a massive chord vocabulary.

Ed Fuqua · #12 05-04-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher S

Check out Sonny Rollins, Night at the Village Vanguard: sax, drums, bass trio. Classic...

A more personal favorite is MOTION - Lee Konitz, Sonny Dallas and Elvin Jones...

Ed Fuqua · #13 05-04-2009, 10:26 AM

Spin (who has since deleted his posts), Leon et al - hold me in what little regard you care to, it's certainly no skin off my nose. And I'm absolutely fine with being disagreed with, just be able to back up your assertions with some experience. What I object to (as do most folks) is being spoken to like I'm an idiot. The reason I disagree with you is not because I need "education (in) a well rounded understanding of chordal structures (whether you are playing them on a bass as chords or breaking them down to individual components to the bass line)" and you might or might not know that. Hence the invitation to delve a little deeper. Not so you might be impressed (because whether or not you are or are not impressed doesn't actually change the way I sound) but so that if you indeed have a point you want to make to me you don't have to dumb it down.

Or not, it's up to you. But if you have a position, why not hew to it? I don't think that's any harder than changing it and typing out a bunch of passive/aggressive chatter.

HaVIC5 · #14 05-04-2009, 11:54 AM

Um...yeah...what is up with all of this hate towards Ed? He knows what he's talking about, and has the experience and ability to back it up.

fdeck · #15 05-09-2009, 11:26 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_htGBKvXWpI

Beast · #16 05-10-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdeck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_htGBKvXWpI

What a damn cool clip. Thanks for sharing that!

sleeplessknight · #17 05-10-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beast

What a damn cool clip. Thanks for sharing that!

Seconded, that rocked. Thank you!

Beast · #18 05-10-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleeplessknight

Seconded, that rocked. Thank you!

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but if somebody could PM me some great album names that the "Red Mitchell" guy in the clip played on, I'd be mega-thankful!

sleeplessknight · #19 05-10-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beast

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but if somebody could PM me some great album names that the "Red Mitchell" guy in the clip played on, I'd be mega-thankful!

Joe Pass & Red Mitchell - Finally: Live In Stockholm is one of my favorites. As for other recordings, just ask Google. He was EXTREMELY prolific, recording with Billie Holiday, Barney Kessel, all sorts of cats.

Ed Fuqua · #20 05-11-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beast

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but if somebody could PM me some great album names that the "Red Mitchell" guy in the clip played on, I'd be mega-thankful!

You mean other than the two I mentioned in my first post? If you go to the DB side, there's about a 40 page thread called (something like) WASN'T RED A GREAT PLAYER that has just about every record he's on referenced; it's a nice resource. There are a number of folks posting on that side that knew Red personally...