Bass harmonics

Migsds · #1 06-29-2011, 01:16 AM

Hey everyone,

I recently got into harmonics

They sound really nice but i'm only able to get the harmonics on the 5th, 6th , 9th and 12th frets and just barely on the 4th fret.

Now watching victor wootens amazing grace
YouTube - ‪Victor Wooten Amazing Grace‬&rlm;

He uses almost all frets and they come out so clear.

Now with my bass harmonics don't come out clear. A lot of the time they just sound as if they are palm muted.

I did get Marcus Miller "Fat Beams" to see if it would help and it did quite a bit.

So if you have any info or videos that have to do with those other harmonics that i can watch i would really appreciate it

Thanks :-)

Epitaph04 · #2 06-29-2011, 01:21 AM

If you'll notice, Wooten switches the tuning of different strings throughout the video. Some harmonics and harmonic patterns can only be achieved by using a different tuning(s). Check out some Michael Manring videos. Also try switching to the bridge pickup.

One more thing, according to wikipedia, John Myung uses a chorus effect on his bass so his harmonics ring out more.

SLaPiNFuNK · #3 06-29-2011, 01:29 AM

Bridge Pickup as mentioned and plucking close to the bridge. As long as you play spot on to where the harmonics are, they will speak. You don't need to press hard on the string either.

There are like 4 harmonics between the 3rd and 4th frets...

Migsds · #4 06-29-2011, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epitaph04

If you'll notice, Wooten switches the tuning of different strings throughout the video. Some harmonics and harmonic patterns can only be achieved by using a different tuning(s).

I have looked at that. . My bass is in standard tuning BEADG
But the strings are a bit loose. Not sure if that affects it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epitaph04

Check out some Michael Manring videos.

Will Definitely check him out thanks

and will try the chorus pedal

Epitaph04 · #5 06-29-2011, 02:13 AM

Try Manring's Selene. Should pop up easily on youtube. Beautiful use of harmonics (and his Zon bass!

)

Migsds · #6 06-29-2011, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epitaph04

Try Manring's Selene. Should pop up easily on youtube. Beautiful use of harmonics (and his Zon bass!

)

I DID!!!!!

THIS GUY IS AMAZING!!!

Thanks so much for it

funkstag · #7 06-29-2011, 02:39 AM

Every bass is different with finding its harmonics. If you search long enough you will find them all =]

john grey · #8 06-29-2011, 09:55 AM

I had done the same thing you've done and even posted a little Amazing Grace tab somewhere on the forum. It was well written for a tab structure; they used an interesting idea to communicate the subtleties.

I found a couple of things that were interesting. My fret-less was more "flexible" to use with harmonics (for me) because it maintained a clearer intonation & I could "roll" my finger to just the right place with less string noise (as I used fresh bright flats).

When I used a fretted instrument I still got a good sound but the "freshness" of the round wound strings made a significant difference (for the better). My intonation was never as exact as my fret-less. In so far as effects: I tried various chorus, reverb, etc. For me I found the chorus needs to be very delicate. Reverb (digital) can help a lot & appears less sensitive.

I agree with the concept of working close to the bridge. I have mostly Music Mans but one jazz Bass and found that I got a crisper sound at the bridge w/a bridge pup. It may be that the more taught the string the more control you have when you leave the string. This seems like a more significant issue when I used round wounds that were thinner (like 95-40). I got more control on the ring with medium (105-45) R/W. I really like using headphones; it seems to help a great deal.

I don't own a 5 string & I think some things can only be done with a 5 string, that I've heard.

groooooove · #9 06-29-2011, 09:59 AM

bridge pickup +1.

just practice. a lot of harmonics exist not over the fret, but between frets. they exist in fractions of string length- as in, half of your string length will give you an octave, 1/3 will give you (im not sure), 1/4th will give you 2 octaves above open string, 1/5 will give you, ext ext.

jay tay · #10 06-29-2011, 10:08 AM

I love harmonics, the main thing is finding exactly where they lie, audible harmonics don't lie on every fret, on every string. and some times you will get more thane one between frets, for example between the second and third fret, I can find three different harmonics. and every bass seems to be different, I just got a new fretless six string, and I cant find a harmonic on it. so I plugged in my usual 6er, and their all there, you just have to lock yourself away for a few days, and dig in.

ian_s · #11 06-29-2011, 10:13 AM

Fresh strings, play nearer to the bridge, and practice. It takes some practice to figure out where the harmonics between the frets are. Also note harmonics down over and near your pickups. (Oh, that's why pickup placement matters! ;-)

Also, some can be very hard to hear if you're practicing unplugged.

I still can't figure out how Vic can _bend_ a harmonic note in the middle of the run... it doesn't sound like there's enough time to reach up and bend the string above the nut. Sometimes I just watch Vic or Manring play to appreciate the beauty of the spectacle.

john grey · #12 06-29-2011, 11:46 AM

I thought about the "bending" issue also and at first thought it might have been a wah pedal either physically blocked or substituting a lower resistance pot. but then I saw a video and could see Wooten's feet (no pedal...). So I tossed out that idea. Bending at the nut would certainly take too much time but what about the bridge?

If you can find a digital tuner (especially one that has a "through in & out" input jack) you can increase your learning at a great rate. Plug the tuner in and find your linear major scales; then note the harmonics within.
I use a simple method of remembering the harmonics by making a word or sentence to coincide with the notes.
HOWEVER - this is often individual. One Bass might not give you the same intermediate notes (#'s and b's) as another due to intonation issues.
I use linear major scales because one string at a time is easier for me than a grid system of memory.

Migsds · #13 06-30-2011, 04:43 AM

Thanks for all the help everyone :-)

I really appreciate it. . . gonna try all the ideas you gave and hopefully i can get something :-)

I really like the idea of Harmonics so im keen to get them right. i will admit it is frustrating as watching videos and so on people find them with relative easy :P

jay tay · #14 06-30-2011, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john grey

I thought about the "bending" issue also and at first thought it might have been a wah pedal either physically blocked or substituting a lower resistance pot. but then I saw a video and could see Wooten's feet (no pedal...). So I tossed out that idea. Bending at the nut would certainly take too much time but what about the bridge?

Just grab the neck, ie the side of the fret board, and lean on the body with you right fore arm! works just like grabbing the headstock, but you need a strong grip!

jay tay · #15 06-30-2011, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migsds

Thanks for all the help everyone :-)

I really appreciate it. . . gonna try all the ideas you gave and hopefully i can get something :-)

I really like the idea of Harmonics so im keen to get them right. i will admit it is frustrating as watching videos and so on people find them with relative easy :P

Just remember, no one posts videos of themselves when they can't do it, and their still doing it wrong. Every one starts at the same place, just put the work in, and you'll get it eventually... I'm sure that at one point Victor, and Jaco couldn't do it either.

bassic.science · #16 06-30-2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epitaph04

If you'll notice, Wooten switches the tuning of different strings throughout the video. Some harmonics and harmonic patterns can only be achieved by using a different tuning(s).

I don't think that's what he's doing, it looks more like he's correcting the tuning. Victor is the master of evoking harmonics from fret positions that are very challenging. 2.6, 3.4, that kinda stuff. I'm pretty sure that's how he gets such a myriad of harmonic tones.

He also uses very subtle artificial harmonics. This relates to the harmonic bending that people are talking about. You can see it in the Bass Day 98 video. Watch carefully around 1:31, you see after he plucks the note touches the string with his index fingernail to get the harmonic, which he bends with his left hand.

YouTube - ‪Victor Wooten: Live at Bass Day‬&rlm;

Anyways, I've always played neck pickup and been able to get harmonics there too. Just keep practicing, you'll get it.

jay tay · #17 06-30-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassic.science

I don't think that's what he's doing, it looks more like he's correcting the tuning. Victor is the master of evoking harmonics from fret positions that are very challenging. 2.6, 3.4, that kinda stuff. I'm pretty sure that's how he gets such a myriad of harmonic tones.

He also uses very subtle artificial harmonics. This relates to the harmonic bending that people are talking about. You can see it in the Bass Day 98 video. Watch carefully around 1:31, you see after he plucks the note touches the string with his index fingernail to get the harmonic, which he bends with his left hand.

YouTube - ‪Victor Wooten: Live at Bass Day‬&rlm;

Anyways, I've always played neck pickup and been able to get harmonics there too. Just keep practicing, you'll get it.

come to think of it, I think I remember Steve Bailey doing the same thing at a seminar once!

Skitch it! · #18 06-30-2011, 01:45 PM

It helps to have a clean strong technique as far as picking and muting are concerned imo. I tend to use the very tip's of the right hand fingers where the harder skin callouses have formed for more defined, articulated and stronger attack, usually working over the back pickup. As far as the left, I find it's a matter of getting your touch together and using a visual aspect to map out, and memorize the best position/s for the strongest harmonic response for that particular harmonic sequence in relation to the fret/s, which can differ, or seem to differ on different basses. A couple of millimetres makes a big difference, it's a matter of practice and fine tuning to the subtleties of the distancing for forming strong harmonics, my 2 pence.

jay tay · #19 06-30-2011, 01:54 PM

Have a look at this John Myung video, at 2:00 in to the video is a lesson on Harmonics, pretty cool!

YouTube - ‪John Myung Progressive Bass Concepts chunk 5‬&rlm;

thlayli · #20 06-30-2011, 02:03 PM

You can "bend" harmonics a couple of different ways. One, mentioned earlier, is to push and pull on the neck. If your bass isn't built well, be careful with this one.

Another is to slide the harmonic. Takes practice, and is much, MUCH easier on a fretless. Just hit the harmonic and then quickly and cleanly fret it and slide... once you get it down, it's not too hard, but you really do want to make sure you get it consistent if you want to use it.

Vic's original Fodera has a Kahler tremolo bridge. He's cheating. :-P