Bass parts for Blues

[basspla915]

Hey gang...Been away for awhile and would like some feedback...I have been playing bass in blues bands for several years and just joined a new band...I view my role as holding down the bottom, keeping the groove and the time with the drummer...Very good at varying blues patterns and will vary the patterns during solos..So, here is the question/issue....New band (singer and drummer) want me to "improvise" during solos..Now, changing the patterns up during solos is what I consider to be improvising BUT they appear to be looking for more of a "jam band" approach..When I listen to all my favorite blues bands/bassists in concert, rarely do I see this...Am I lacking in my bassplaying by not doing this???

[FrankLowend]

Fist of all, the bass player must add groove and be together with the drummer... you are right, absolutely... But is nice to see bass players making solos, it brings new dimension to the band, I think. Go ahead, ask for the guys create a special variatino in the music to create sense for the bass solo.

[basspla915]

Thank you, Frank. This is not really about solos as much as it is about a loose, improvisational approach to the blues...

[Milk_Steak]

what do you consider to be the jam band approach to improve from a bassists persepctive? just curious what you mean in relation to blues style improv or whatever

[FrankLowend]

Think as a big fat singer playing some lá-lá-lá - the voice is your bass...

[rzpooch]

I think you are doing it right already. maybe get a little busier during the solos, but keep the groove. A good bass line in the blues is golden! You might ask the singer to scat over a verse or 2 and see how that goes over..LOL

[warnergt]

Originally Posted by basspla915

...New band (singer and drummer) want me to "improvise" during solos...

Are we talking about bass solos? ...or are they saying the
bass should do more during the guitar break/solo when the
singer isn't singing?

[ksandvik]

I started to play chromatic scales and other jazzier patterns and scales with blues just to break loss from the boring walking bass blues rut.

[INTP]

I'd be pretty energized to be working with a group that wanted to play improvisational blues/jam band material. I certainly don't think that holding down the groove and improvising are mutually exclusive. One of the nice things about blues is that the basic pattern is simple (I-IV-V), which allows room to explore musical options within the pattern. This, to me, is what makes blues interesting. Playing the same basic patterns over and over (slow blues, shuffle, grinder) gets old after a while.

With blues improv, I think a lot about the feel of the music, and also about the tension and release. There are lot of ways to do this: rhythmic changes, volume, syncopation, tonality (e.g. playing off the 3rd or the 7th to create tension, resolving to the root or 5th), just to name a few.

As for the question of lacking in bassplaying, I'd avoid such a generalization. There are so many ways to play bass, you'll never be able to do all of them. If improvisational music isn't your thing, you can still have a great time playing and make good music. No matter what you choose to play, there will be innumerable other types of playing that are excluded. Do what works for you.

[john grey]

+1

Very good advice.

Exploring the I-IV-V progression from differing material will really help look at things you personally enjoy expanding on. Get a lot of Blues material; especially from the 1940-50's, as this was the time when amplified recorded music started to blossom into what's available today. Obviously the roots go much, much deeper but that period of time was when many people got into a recording studio and musical elements widened from a simple recording of the acoustic. There is a "call and response", a "tension & release" dynamic to many Blues tunes and some of the music can be had in written form from that era. Some will seem familiar but looking deeper, some may be unique and fresh.

[TomB]

I've played a lot of Blues for a very long time. There are a lot of variants of blues, but there is a basic form and set of changes that puts music in the category, and it's a music primarily focused on delivering the message contained in the lyrics.

I take it this band wants to jam on the solos live. That can work (from my perspective) as long as the band knows how to "come back" and not get lost in endless jams; unless that's what they want to do. That can be cool but isn't typical of the blues.

One thing that really helps change up the mood/feel and is often lacking in many blues bands I see is the use of dynamics. Really bringing the volume and intensity of the song way down during instrumental improvisational passages (and way up as desired for excitement) is very much in keeping w/the blues and allows the band to explore a bit more and for the vocalist to emphasize the song's messages. You can even lose the groove here and there if you wish (as long as there are no dancers to keep on the floor). Still, this would be more the exception than the rule, to keep it fresh. Other posters have presented a lot of nice ideas to change up without losing the basic identity.

If the band wants to explore nether regions at length with every instrumental, and the vocals are only designed to frame lengthy jams, then I would question whether they're really a blues band and you probably need to decide if a jam band's what you want to do. It can be cool & fun, but I wouldn't necessarily call it the Blues.

[mtkegger]

Take a listen to...

Crossroads, Live Cream Vol II
Summertime Blues, Live at Leeds
Young Man Blues, Live at Leeds

That's about as as good as it gets.. In between all that fast stuff are some really good ideas for filling a blues bass line.

Hope you got a good drummer

[basspla915]

Thank you all for the feedback and advice! TomB has really captured what is going on here...In a 1 hour set where we would typically have 12 - 13 songs to play, we will be lucky to get through 6 since there are "endless solos and jams".....I think that there is a lot of variations on a theme that can be added, especially during the solos and this is what I try to do...@INTP...Thank you for the advice and encouragement...The band likes my style, sound, groove, etc...but this one issue tends to keep coming around..

[Fergie Fulton]

Modern day bass playing in Blues is a subtle thing.
Let me first say that anyone that says or gets bored playing a Blues line is missing the point of what they are doing so much so that it is not the line they are playing that is the problem, but the whole band and musical situation they are in.

The idea of Blues bass is to support and outline,
a/ the harmony of the song
b/ the rhythm of the music
c/ certain aspects of the melody
in a much more suble way, because of the restrictions of the genre, implication of what is happening comes into it.

This implyed playing means that its what you know to leave out so you imply rather than state what is happening. For this to happen the players around you need to be ables to accept and understand these parameters.

So if we consider a Blues bass line as being part of something then if any one is bored with what they play, then they are bored with everyones playing.

Why?

Because those around you are not doing what is required of them to make the song work....maybe you are all not doing what is required to make the song work.

Point of fact, if a person/players introduction to live Blues for example, is a bunch of Rock players playing a cover or two in their set, then that in itself is a flawed introdution to the genre.
What's more this kind or introduction if experienced enough times by enough people will replace what the real experience of listening to Blues is about.

Understanding why its Blues and why it works is part of the fun of playing Blues...keeping within its defined limits of whatdefines it as Blues, yet looking to explore it without changing it into something elses.....in other words making it relevent to a modern world, but still respecting what went before.

As we speak now we are just a Blues player....20 years ago we were R'n'B Players also, but R'n'B got high jacked and now means something else. Usher, Beyonce, and co. etc.. are no Fabulous Thunderbirds, or Dr. Feelgood....two of the best R'n'B bands of their day.
Playing in a Blues band should be more than just playing what gets a player off, but about the whole sound/feel of what is required to make the song work.

[ksandvik]

Me think Delta is the real blues and then it went downhill from Chicago forwards and especially the West coast swing, yak yak yak. Even if Delta blues musically-wise is playing one root key for a long time, there's far/far/far more feeling than doing jazz-swing blues lines in West Coast. Anyway, just my opinion.

[basspla915]

@Fergie....Your post is exactly how I feel about the blues and my part as a bassist..For those who dont get it and find it boring or repetitive, there appears to be a desire to change it into something else...

[Marty Forrer]

Sounds to me like they want you to play the patterns during the song and break into walking bass during solos. I do this quite often if playing in a 3 piece, as it tends to fill the void a little. I will usually walk but incorporate the previous "pattern" into the walk every four bars or so just to give some continuity.
I have no idea if you are comfortable with walking bass or not, but if not then a combination of scale tones and judiscious chromatic passing tones will get you up to the octave, or up to two octaves, and back down again. This will require a bit of practice on your part (assuming you're not comfortable with it).
After the solos are done and the vocals resume I will often use a busier or more dynamic pattern than in the first half, to keep the energy building. This of course depends entirely on what the song calls for, sometimes it requires the exact opposite.

[basspla915]

@Marty...I am very confortable with walking patterns and can (and do) move from other blues riffs into a walking pattern as you suggest...The issue has to do with the "originals" that the singer wrote that do not have standard blues riffs or patterns...
This will be an adventure! Thank you for the feedback!

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by basspla915

For those who dont get it and find it boring or repetitive, there appears to be a desire to change it into something else...

There is a difference between not getting it and finding it boring. I do "get" the blues. I've listened to a lot of Muddy, Howlin Wolf, Willie Dixon, etc. and I like to listen to it, but I find it boring to play. And it is repetitive!

As far as changing it into something else; all music evolves. If it didn't we'd still be beating on logs in the forest with sticks. If you played today's country music for Hank Williams, Sr. I doubt he would even acknowledge it as country.

General comment:

When I first found talk bass I thought it would be a community of forward thinking, open minded individuals looking to really push the envelope and encourage new ideas and looking for new ways to do things. Although there are a number of people like that, it seems that there are a lot more people who are set in their ways, can't acknowledge new ideas and think that there is only one way to do things - their way.

There is nothing wrong with tradition and I think you should understand how things have been done before you do them differently. I just don't understand the attitude of some people who don't want music to change and grow.

Who gets to decide when it stops being blues? Is John Mayall blues? Clapton? Early Zeppelin? Stevie Ray? Johnny Lang? Allman Brothers? Johnny Winter? Kenny Wayne Shepherd? ZZ Top?

Let's all just live and let live. I'll play it my way, you play it your way. Don't listen to what you don't like, don't call if wrong just because you don't like it.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by basspla915

@Fergie....Your post is exactly how I feel about the blues and my part as a bassist..For those who dont get it and find it boring or repetitive, there appears to be a desire to change it into something else...

I have no problems with it becoming something else, that is just the evolution of playing, but I do understand when it has become something else and what I can do to support this.

Blues is about the story, it is the subject matter that makes a Blues song, not the playing....again so many miss this point and think they can play the Blues, but in fact just play rock.
That may be why the name R'n'B was used and why some of the same criticism that it all sounds the same is levelled at it, because good modern R'n'B tells the same stories as old R'n'B stars like Muddy, Wolf, Hooker, Dixon etc were singing about....drink, drugs, sex, inequality of life, where they came from, where they want to go, social comment etc...
If the great were alive today maybe they would be rapping and using the technology of the day to create new sound and beats much like the did back in the day when the Blues got electrified to become R'n'B in the 50s?........maybe modern R'nB has more in common with old school that I thought, but it ain't the Blues as defined by genre, which is possibly the worst definition of the Blues around.