bass as a solo/melodic instrument.

ani10s · #1 10-19-2010, 03:42 PM

it seems that on every video of jeff berlin or marcus miller or victor wooten (well, maybe not vic

) theres always that one guys who calls said bassist a wanker, or hes not playing the bass as it is meant to played, or whats the purpose of playing that on a bass. Personally, i feel like if we dont keep pushing the boundaries, then there will be a stoppage in progress, seeing that the bass guitar itself is a very young instrument. If people like mccartney and entwhistle didnt say no to just a whole note one every beat one, well, it would really suck.

Thoughts?

ani10s · #2 10-19-2010, 03:50 PM

bump?

JPSBassist · #3 10-19-2010, 04:02 PM

I once had a guy walk up to me at a music store as I was playing a bass (trying it out) and he said in a passive aggressive way, "You know you're not supposed to play the bass that way."

I was originally trained as a guitarist. I played guitar a decade then didn't touch an instrument for 17 years, and then I picked up the bass. I've been seriously playing a little over a year.

So I have a lot of "bad habits" from my years as a guitarist I suppose...

I just looked at him and my response was, "It's not supposed to be played that way?" with an "I didn't know that tone".

He said, "That's right" in an authoritative tone.

So I leveled down on him and simply said, "Well if it's not supposed to be played that way, then how come I can?"

He didn't know how to respond and I started ignoring him anyway... tapping out Bach's Fugue in D Minor loudly as he walked away.

So I treat the bass like a melodic instrument. It can be if you play it that way. I sometimes strum cords. I tap. I use a three-finger picking/plucking style like a guitarist would. I use a pick.

I'm getting better at slap; but it's not really my thing. The music I prefer treats the bass like the swan I hear it to be, not the ugly duckling that many guitarists, my father included, would have you think it is.

When I was 12, I wanted to play the bass... but my father, a gifted acoustic guitarist would hear nothing of it. He looked down his nose at bassists. He didn't think they were on the same musical level as he was.

I've since played him some Jaco and Wooten... some Wimbish and Hamm... He doesn't say anything about that anymore. Of course I'm in my 40's and not a kid either.

Shame on any musician, bassist or otherwise, who would want to constrict the sounds these incredible/beautiful sounding instruments can make to a single note at a time.

Yes. The bass can be played that way. And if it fits the song there's nothing wrong with it. But the bass can also be played in such a way that the notes are a cry to heaven in their complexity and beauty.

Music is a universal language; more closely related to math than anyone might guess. Why would someone want to restrict that language at all when music is the one thing our species creates that is fabled to "Soothe the savage beast"?

Play and make music and cherish that you can. And to each, let them find their own path. Stop judging one-another. In music we find a common language that can transcend politics and religions and cultures. This is a beautiful thing.

tangentmusic · #4 10-19-2010, 04:11 PM

Chris Squire said in an interview once that we would never have been welcomed into the London recording session scene because of his approach to the instrument. "Your not supposed to play bass that way!"
Good thing for all us Yes fans...

okcrum · #5 10-19-2010, 04:29 PM

Check out Jimmy Garrison, Charles Mingus, Scott LaFaro (with Bill Evans), or Dave Holland. All DB players, but they play really lyrical solos and lines, not just the usual comp.

bassbrad · #6 10-19-2010, 04:33 PM

Personally I want to hear bass players breaking out of the traditional roles, expanding music and stepping out of the shadows. I for one do not stand behind any musicians, I play good solid foundational swinging grooving bass lines, but am always ready to solo or play the melody. Those skills and knowledge have made me a better bass player, not a lesser one.
IMO it's sad that so many players have such a negative attitude towards bass being melodic, playing lead and solos. It means that they have closed the door on their musical growth and are satisfied to only be a follower, bass players should lead as well as support.
Or it means that they are not capable enough as players and they feel empowered to put down more skilled players.

ani10s · #7 10-19-2010, 05:09 PM

wise words... also i have only heard of charlie mingus from that list of DB'ers, since im an ignorant 16 year old, but i also feel like that brings about another question. Why is it that what seems like the much more stricter world of jazz has more melodic bass players, while recent years, popular rock has had extremely stale bass lines. im assuming its the stupidity of my generation, especially that of girls, added with the greed/marketing geniouses of record companies. oh how i wish we lived in a time where prog rock is the norm.

Beginner Bass · #8 10-19-2010, 05:22 PM

I believe that when people try and put an instrument into a single style of playing, they just build walls. I don't consider myself any sort of Victor Wooten or Stanley Clarke or what have you, but I do use various right-hand techniques. I may use my thumb and fingers, like a classical guitarist. I sometimes strum some chords. The problem isn't people who do play that way, I think a large part of their bad reputation is the kids who try to mimic them and don't pull it off in a way that others find pleasing, so people lump the two together and say that they all suck unless they play half-note rhythyms of the root for the whole song. But that's just my opinion.

SMILEYSIXX · #9 10-19-2010, 05:25 PM

Thank God my band wants to hear that melodic sound because that's my playing style. I hate the idea of bass solely as rhythm. I understand the *traditional* use of the bass is for rhythm, but that doesn't mean that you can't push limits with it.

okcrum · #10 10-19-2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ani10s

wise words... also i have only heard of charlie mingus from that list of DB'ers, since im an ignorant 16 year old, but i also feel like that brings about another question. Why is it that what seems like the much more stricter world of jazz has more melodic bass players, while recent years, popular rock has had extremely stale bass lines. im assuming its the stupidity of my generation, especially that of girls, added with the greed/marketing geniouses of record companies. oh how i wish we lived in a time where prog rock is the norm.

Well, the role of the rhythm section is somewhat different in much of rock or pop than it is in jazz, so things opened up in jazz earlier for bass players. There are plenty of jazz gigs where bass is also just a melodic timekeeper, supporting the tune, and nothing more. There's a subtle art to that, too.

As you say, at least there's prog rock. Being the whole package (big groove pocket and being able to go lyrical/solo) will really put you in demand.

Mr wiggl3s · #11 10-19-2010, 06:29 PM

We already have it in metal. Om (the band) is a leading example.

soundgardenis · #12 10-19-2010, 08:54 PM

The first two years I played bass I noodled around alot thinking it was the cool thing to do and then slowly I began to play less and less notes. Now I pretty much stick with the beat. I talked to Neil Young's bass player and he told me less is more. Real nice guy. Name is Rick Rosas.

Ian the bassist · #13 10-19-2010, 09:06 PM

I say there is no right or wrong way to play bass. It's all down to preference and anyone who tells you you're playing an instrument wrong is just ignorant. Everyone should be able to express themselves on their instrument in whatever way they like. I'm a lead style bassist and not meaning to sound big headed but anyone who has seen me play has been impressed at what I bring to the table. I use effects. I play fast when I want. And I play bass solos. Nothig wrong with any of this on bass.

Ian the bassist · #14 10-19-2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMILEYSIXX

Thank God my band wants to hear that melodic sound because that's my playing style. I hate the idea of bass solely as rhythm. I understand the *traditional* use of the bass is for rhythm, but that doesn't mean that you can't push limits with it.

Exactly how I feel. Well said

soundgardenis · #15 10-19-2010, 09:30 PM

No offense dude but if someone plays bass with a piece of pizza then they are playing bass the wrong way. And if you want to make a comment like that than I can guarantee there are times when you feel insecure about your bass playing.

Ian the bassist · #16 10-19-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundgardenis

No offense dude but if someone plays bass with a piece of pizza then they are playing bass the wrong way. And if you want to make a comment like that than I can guarantee there are times when you feel insecure about your bass playing.

Ah now theres no need to take cheap shots. Obviously what I meant is whatever way the player feels is right is the right way. What do you mean 'A comment like that'? I'm just expressing my opinion.

SMILEYSIXX · #17 10-19-2010, 09:35 PM

Everyone's insecure about playing. We're musicians. It's practically part of our job description. Regardless, what does that have to do with the OP?

Gawd · #18 10-19-2010, 09:41 PM

I don't really get where to the idea that bass is supposed to play the root note came from. If you look at classical orchestral music, the bass parts don't stick to the root, they usually play a counterpoint, harmonic and melodic role. In jazz the bass walks outlining the chord progression, and solos, not just roots. It seems that the root note role only came around in some rock music. So how did it become the stereotype?

soundgardenis · #19 10-19-2010, 09:47 PM

I was talking about you braggin how good of a bass player you are. Its like Gene Simmons braggin about how good lookin he is. Its like me braggin about how intelligent I am. Its just not true.

Ian the bassist · #20 10-19-2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundgardenis

I was talking about you braggin how good of a bass player you are. Its like Gene Simmons braggin about how good lookin he is. Its like me braggin about how intelligent I am. Its just not true.

You can decide yourself if you want? I wasn't bragging people come up to me after gigs all the time this is fact. I am humble about my playing and know there are alot of bass players better than me. Check out mother tongue it's my riff.
www.facebook.com/shoctopus
Feel free if you have any of your bands tracks I always take the time to listen.