Bass solos vs. playing bass with the song?

[Gear_Junky]

Ok, as expected much easier to breathe here than in the gear forums

1st, a disclaimer: i ain't trying to bash bass solos and 6+ string basses (although I just use a guitar for that )

but, what do you think: if the bassist is playing the treble-clef solos, etc., who's playing bass? (pun intended).

I mean, I can dig a solo spot, just like a drummer or a guitarist or anybody gets a chance to solo. Everybody else gives up some sonic room and the bassist plays his chops (and many were quite successful on 4-strings doing that).

But what about all these 7 string bassists playing "lead"?

ok, the worms are out of the can

[nortonrider]

I always figured that the reason Wooten is able to do so much in the Flecktones is because he has that rolling banjo filling up the space behind him.

[Gear_Junky]

i often see so many "flamenco guitar" bassists, i miss the good ole' pumping groove!

[dreadheadbass]

depends on the solo and the band when i solo in my band the guitarists will move up to the lower octave and palm mute so as not to drown me out and i head towards the higher end of the fretboard to show off my skillz etc i find it works well as the bass is still there and the guitar crunch is still noticable but not overbearing

[Gear_Junky]

ok, i can dig that. but that's not the whole song, right, more of a "solo spot" or a "chorus", not really playing "lead"

[skaliwag66]

All just a matter of taste.

[Chad.mundt]

This is largely why you don't hear too many bassists mentioned in the same breath as Bird or Brecker, etc. The bass is a very difficult instrument to solo with, and this is largely because there needs to be some sort of support. In traditional jazz, the bass solo is generally treated as a falling tension after the sax or trumpet solo's climax. The chording instrument will generally play in the upper ranges and the drummer will play very lightly and quietly, giving the our cumbersome instrument sonic space , but this is generally a dynamic drop.

The electric bass solo follows the same sort of principle, but changes in other instrumentation and styles (fusion especially), along with the more sustaining sound of the EB, allows the electric player the liberty to play more melodically. For example, in fusion and rock styles, the synth can easily provide the support that a bass soloist needs. Also, today's percussionist has a much larger palate of timbres to choose from, also providing support.

If the electric guitarist is akin to a saxophone soloist, the electric bassist is a trombonist. The electric bass, even when played in the same register, most certainly has a different sound that the electric guitar. Similarly, bassists have spent their entire lives developing a technique that is only applicable to our instrument. I don't want to take the time to develop my technique on the guitar when I can play what I hear on my bass. If you want to do so, great! All the more power to you. But don't tell me how to make my art.

If you want to hear these concepts on record, listen to John Patitucci with the Chick Corea Elektric Band or Gary Willis with Tribal Tech. These men have developed their own improvisational sound in the context of their roles.

[cnltb]

I personally am not a fan of 7 string basses as I have not heard many or any low f# strings that sounded any good. The same goes for most top C strings on 6 string basses.
The approach to music with the bassist playing lead , I don't see anything wrong with at all, as long as it's done tastefully and in the right context.

[Gear_Junky]

my favorite entry so far (and also the one right after it) and no, i ain't telling noone how to make their art.

anyone is free to do what they want. and i'm free to express my likes/dislikes about it

Originally Posted by Chad.mundt

This is largely why you don't hear too many bassists mentioned in the same breath as Bird or Brecker, etc. The bass is a very difficult instrument to solo with, and this is largely because there needs to be some sort of support. In traditional jazz, the bass solo is generally treated as a falling tension after the sax or trumpet solo's climax. The chording instrument will generally play in the upper ranges and the drummer will play very lightly and quietly, giving the our cumbersome instrument sonic space , but this is generally a dynamic drop.

The electric bass solo follows the same sort of principle, but changes in other instrumentation and styles (fusion especially), along with the more sustaining sound of the EB, allows the electric player the liberty to play more melodically. For example, in fusion and rock styles, the synth can easily provide the support that a bass soloist needs. Also, today's percussionist has a much larger palate of timbres to choose from, also providing support.

If the electric guitarist is akin to a saxophone soloist, the electric bassist is a trombonist. The electric bass, even when played in the same register, most certainly has a different sound that the electric guitar. Similarly, bassists have spent their entire lives developing a technique that is only applicable to our instrument. I don't want to take the time to develop my technique on the guitar when I can play what I hear on my bass. If you want to do so, great! All the more power to you. But don't tell me how to make my art.

If you want to hear these concepts on record, listen to John Patitucci with the Chick Corea Elektric Band or Gary Willis with Tribal Tech. These men have developed their own improvisational sound in the context of their roles.

[Hawaii Islander]

You don't need a 6 or seven stringed bass to create musical solos on bass. There are plenty of ways to play great sounding melodies with a 4 stringer. The bass can be the lead instrument in a band setting, if you want it to be. If you still need someone to lock in with the drummer, add a second bass player.

[mutedeity]

I don't know but this thread looks like another oportunity for everyone to jump in and have their say on what they think the role of bass should be in any given context. I'm glad people are out there playing bass all kinds of ways and I personally don't care who is holding down the bottom end if the result is interesting. As I have said in other places stick with your way of playing if that is your thing. You have the right to critique and criticise all you want but the fact is that playing bass is as varied and as versatile as the people that play bass. Just a fact of life really.

[wpatton11]

What I like about a bass solo is all the room - if the drummer goes to hi hat and the guitarist or pianist goes to support chords, you've got all that silence to work with. Play a duet with that silence - everybody do shut up when the bass solo comes in, it's cool to use that fact for drama. My 2 cents.
will patton
wpatton.com

[Anti-Product]

Originally Posted by Hawaii Islander

You don't need a 6 or seven stringed bass to create musical solos on bass. There are plenty of ways to play great sounding melodies with a 4 stringer. The bass can be the lead instrument in a band setting, if you want it to be. If you still need someone to lock in with the drummer, add a second bass player.

Yea, I've seen some live clips of Marcus Miller, where he just has a second bass player as he takes his solos/the leads, and it's certainly not because he can't be a support bassist. I think it works really well in his solo stuff, and obviously if he were to do that while playing as a sideman, it would not really work out all that well..

[StealingYerMail]

The way I see, a bass guitar is an instrument, and that's the only thing that defines it. It is not a rhythm only thing, or a lead only thing. It's just an instrument, and a form of expression.

What I'm getting at, is that there is no right way or wrong way to play it in terms of how it fits into a band. The player should do what makes them happy, whatever that means.

Now, with all that said, I appreciate the tightness Rex has with Vinne Paul in Pantera, but I also appreciate Cliff Burton's lead playing style in quite a few songs.

If it's bass, it's all good.

[GreyBeard]

I'm a groove player. I can play a pretty cool solo when I have to be I'd just rather cop a groove and stay in the pocket. But if it sounds good then it is good. The roll of the bass is whatever the player and group make it.

[lokolp]

What makes it a treble clef solo??

[Kwesi]

You can actually do both as shown here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wIvr1AyHScY

Well, it's not really a solo (until he actually does solo) but Tom Kennedy is improvising the hell outta that bass line and it still sounds great (to me anyway) up high or down low. As far as bassists taking high range solos, you've got to remember that no matter how high a bass can go its feel is completely different form a guitar. Take someone like Yves Carbonne his 12 string bass has the range of a an 88 key grand piano and he uses every note, but when he goes up high you can tell its a bass playing and it sounds good. If anything, bass is a much more mellow instrument that a guitar, notice how we rarely have solos in metal or in the vast majority of modern rock. Check this out:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OL4GDaulw1Q

His solo (Tony Grey, by the way) takes place almost exclusively above the 12th fret on all of the strings and it's almost a given that that is a bass playing or at the very least not a guitar even given the high range of the solo.

You could also take people like Cliff Burton, who played more like a guitarist than any bassist i've ever seen (besides Carles Benavent but that's totally different). But, he uses his "bass" just as much as he does his "guitar."

And a lot of times the bassist taking a solo will use a looper pedal to loop the bass line while they solo over. Victor Wooten does that a lot and so does Todd Johnson, when that lady (i can't remember her name ; isn't on the stand up. Sometimes a bassist just goes for their solo like any other instrument. John Patitucci comes to mind. He does loop his bass line nor is there another bassist backing him up, he just goes for it (and he dances when he solos! ). He is uses practically uses the entire range on his TRB-JP6 (great Yamaha plug, right? ) all the while sounding like a bassist.

Ultimately, as in most cases, it's up to the bassist. You can played like a guitarist, the whole fast and high thing, but you'll always sound like a bass because thats what you're playing. Bottom line, so long as your solos don't sound like Bill Dicken's, you're good.

[Gear_Junky]

another cool reply without being defensive.

Originally Posted by wpatton11

What I like about a bass solo is all the room - if the drummer goes to hi hat and the guitarist or pianist goes to support chords, you've got all that silence to work with. Play a duet with that silence - everybody do shut up when the bass solo comes in, it's cool to use that fact for drama. My 2 cents.
will patton
wpatton.com

people, you don't have to be defensive, i'm a bassist too, even though i also play guitar and drums, although i have a lot to learn on all of them.

and i didn't critisize anything, just wanted to start a discussion.

[gloveskates]

you cant possibly limit the bass to one area. Its such a versatile instrument, it can play beautiful melodoic solos (which i personally love) the stuff of wooten and the like. But then it can hold a whole band together by laying down the fundamental areas of the music. I do prefer bass solos than listening to bass in a band but only marginally, I think its great that they are bass soloists like victor wooten out there because they promote a wider acceptance of our instrument. I believe that solos promote our instrument as a more skillful instrument and thats what I hope will happen, coz im sick of ppl just saying that a bass should play one or two notes for the whole song. So Personally i think bass solos win.

[gloveskates]

Originally Posted by StealingYerMail

The way I see, a bass guitar is an instrument, and that's the only thing that defines it. It is not a rhythm only thing, or a lead only thing. It's just an instrument, and a form of expression.

What I'm getting at, is that there is no right way or wrong way to play it in terms of how it fits into a band. The player should do what makes them happy, whatever that means.

Now, with all that said, I appreciate the tightness Rex has with Vinne Paul in Pantera, but I also appreciate Cliff Burton's lead playing style in quite a few songs.

If it's bass, it's all good.

thats exactly how i feel, i couldnt have put it better myself. props to you man well done.