Been working on my speed for over a year, but I'm still slow as hell...

[Matthew_84]

Hey all,

So I've been playing bass for basically 4 years now. First 2 years I just jammed to songs, and for the last two I've been working on technique, theory, etc. In the last year and a half I realized that I'm a pretty slow player, and I aspire to play Rush songs, but can't foresee that I'll ever be quick enough.

I play finger-style with my index and middle, and I can't play much quicker than 1/16ths @ 76BPM.

I know these threads are old, there's a new one every week, but I have tried all of the advice given. Some of my practice routines are as follows, one day I'll play at 50 BPM doing appreggios, once I do them comfortably, then I go up to 54BPM doing scales, and then eventually move up to 58 BPM just doing 1/16ths on one fret. The next day I'll start the appreggios on 52 BPM, then 56, then 60. The next day, 54, 58, 63, etc.

But as I progress, I get hung up around 76 BPM and cannot get quicker. I can do 80 BPM on my best day. I usually play for about 30 minutes every weekday morning when I wake up, and if I have time during the weeknights (which is not always possible) then I'll play then too. And I usually get a couple hours in each day on the weekends. I always stretch and warm up my hands before I play and I stretch them out after.

I have lately been playing with a lighter touch and that is helping but not greatly. I have also been focussing reducing the distance of my strokes to as little as possible.

One thing, is that I tend to tense up when I get to a hard or difficult part. I know my hand should be relaxed the whole way, but I just can't help it. And when I go into these states I also tend to hit the strings harder than I'd like, so hard that I actually clack the strings against the frets.

I've tried a one-finger picking flamenco technique which greatly helped but I don't like the feel or tone. And I don't really like the tone I get out of a pick. Another thing worth mentioning, is that I can pretty much play as quick with my index alone than I can with my index and middle. I'd think that it should only be about half as fast maybe 60% of the speed, but instead it's more likely about 90% - 95%. Sometimes I feel like they are actually getting in each other's way, like the tendons in between can't do both so quickly or something. I can't describe it, but I do get that feeling sometimes. I've tried looking in a mirror to see if they move nicely up and down rather than side to side or anything and they are pretty much straight.

I've kind of ran out of things to do now, and to be quite honest it's been pretty discouraging. I haven't even really played in the last week or so because I've been busy and not so much in the mood because of this issue.

Any help or suggestions are welcome and would be greatly appreciated,

Thanks

Matt

[pedroims]

I may be flammed for this but I am firm believer that we all have limits, some people can play really fast, 16th at 150+ , while many of us are just average players, I can play 8ths at 200, triplets at 140 and clean 16th's at 90, does not matter how much I practice I reached my limit, but for the music I play this is enough, think about running, you can practice your whole life but your chances to run 100 mts in 10 seconds are less than minimum. Keep practicing but IMO do not worry much on speed, feel and clean notes are way more important.

[greggster59]

I'm kinda in the same boat as you. In fact, for years I avoided picking up a stringed instrument because I have a lot of friends who are great chops players and since I felt I wasn't in their league, technically, I did not feel it was worth it to play.

Thankfully, as I've gotten older, I realize its more about the enjoyment I get from making music than being the best player on the block, especially since I'm not trying to make a living from it. I've also learned, from my teacher, this forum and other musicians, that a good bass player is more about groove and feel than chops most of the time. There are so many areas to become proficient in that are well within your reach besides speed. Rhythmic sense, swing, tone, articulation, staying in the pocket and so on.
I'm sure with persistence you can improve your speed over time as well. But, if that's not your strongest asset there are many other areas to master that will make you a really good bass player. Focus on having fun, perhaps find a good teacher to help you out of some possible bad habits, play with other musicians as often as possible even if its just a beer blast jam.
Reading about all you put into being a bassist means you have the bug. Don't give up on it just because you find yourself in a rut. Change your focus, pick up that bass and have some fun. Above all, keep practicing.

[notverygood]

It sounds to me like you are progressing fine. Try picking a song that has a part that requires some speed and learn the whole song so you can groove along and work up to the speed you are looking for. Much less pressure that way for me at least.

[Matthew_84]

I totally agree with what you guys are saying. I do believe that we all have our limits (good run analogy, I'm also slow as hell on the track as well) and I'm not trying to make a profession out of it too. But since I began playing bass, I played the songs that got me into it and stuff that was just fun to play. And I can play intermediate songs really well. Pink Floyd, Hendrix, a lot of modern rock like Metirc and Arctic Monkeys, etc. But when I try to play something quicker even like Reptilia by The Strokes, I can do it but it sometimes prooves difficult.

And since I began bass, my musical taste has changed, and now I inspire to play along to songs with James Jamerson, songs by Led Zeppelin, and Rush. I really feel like YYZ will be my black belt song, but I can't see myself ever getting there. And it's just kind of frustrating. I want to be able to play like that, that's what I like listening to. It's a hard pill to sawllow to realize that I won't likely get there.

[Matthew_84]

Yeah, I've tried learning slightly quicker songs and progressing, but Reptilia I've been playing for about two years now and I still can't nail it all of the time. Though, I am pretty much there now. I would say that that's the quickest song I can play comfortably.

And I do agree that I need to put less pressure on myself.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by Matthew_84

I totally agree with what you guys are saying. I do believe that we all have our limits (good run analogy, I'm also slow as hell on the track as well) and I'm not trying to make a profession out of it too. But since I began playing bass, I played the songs that got me into it and stuff that was just fun to play. And I can play intermediate songs really well. Pink Floyd, Hendrix, a lot of modern rock like Metirc and Arctic Monkeys, etc. But when I try to play something quicker even like Reptilia by The Strokes, I can do it but it sometimes prooves difficult.

And since I began bass, my musical taste has changed, and now I inspire to play along to songs with James Jamerson, songs by Led Zeppelin, and Rush. I really feel like YYZ will be my black belt song, but I can't see myself ever getting there. And it's just kind of frustrating. I want to be able to play like that, that's what I like listening to. It's a hard pill to sawllow to realize that I won't likely get there.

Take Geddy or Jamerson, they were playing a lot, now look how their playing developed even after breaking out. Jamerson was playing as much as anyone on the planet before he really peaked in 1966 or so. Geddy's earliest really difficult lines happened around Hemispheres after years of playing and recording. Let's face it too, since these guys WROTE their lines, they played on their strengths.

Progress should be measured in years, if one is working hard and smart, and getting a little better every day, they are doing well. Period.

I played YYZ after playing bass a short while (I did play guitar before) There were still PLENTY of things I was bad at to know I was a yellow belt player.

Find your playing strengths and use them for your art. Work on your weaknesses to get better, but never let the weaknesses get in the way of art. 16ths at 74 are 8ths at 148 etc. Plenty of music you can play well in that range!

[johnboy65]

just a few things...
youre right you should be relaxed when playing fast
another hint is to make sure you have a good hand angle when you speed up
if you play back towards the bridge where the strings are more taught you shouldnt clank as much
something that helped me was when I started using 3 fingers (I still tend to play with only 2) the extra dexterity required to pull it off helped my right hand overall. People do it all sorts of different but I just do/did Index, Middle, Ring, Middle, Index, Middle, Ring, Middle, Index... ect
just the doubling of the Middle might really help

[jmattbassplaya]

You've only been playing for 4 years, man. You got a LOT more mileage to go as a player before you'll ever reach your full potential I only recently got 'fast' at doing lead lines with my fingers (index and middle). Just keep at it and enjoy the ride.

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by pedroims

I may be flammed for this but I am firm believer that we all have limits, some people can play really fast, 16th at 150+ , while many of us are just average players, I can play 8ths at 200, triplets at 140 and clean 16th's at 90, does not matter how much I practice I reached my limit, but for the music I play this is enough, think about running, you can practice your whole life but your chances to run 100 mts in 10 seconds are less than minimum. Keep practicing but IMO do not worry much on speed, feel and clean notes are way more important.

Ditto.

[ILIA]

Congrats on getting to this point. That sounds about right. Most people clock in around 76-88 before they hit a wall.

Things to do:

1) you have already recognized the tension problem. You'll just have to figure out how to alleviate that.

2) Have you ever videotaped your left hand and right hand execution and slowed it down? Really watch to make sure you are expending as little energy and motion as possible to execute. Your fingers may be working harder than they need to. The fingers need to move just enough to attack and clear the string. This applies to both left hand and right. Are you sure the two hands are indeed coordinated with each other?

3) This a good time to step away from bass lines and install yourself in the vocabulary and mindset of another instrument. For example, be a sax player in your mind, but execute your ideas on the bass.

4) This is also a good time to work on other parts of your musicianship. I find that most bass guitarists who obsess about BPM usually can't sight read their way through a lead sheet, or hear their way through a set of unknown changes, or be able to fake their way through a set of standards in any genre. Take a break from speed and work on the other things that don't seem as impressive, but really are the most important attributes that separate the men from the boys.

5) Speed is not always about BPM. Sometimes a passage will sound faster to a listener if it is played CLEANER (consistent attacks, releases, and sustain of tone).

6) What pedroims said and stick_player dittoed. However, you are nowhere near exhausting the possibilities. There is a limit, but I don't think you have done all that you can to develop yourself (and most people don't).

[studentofjazz]

I've been playing for 2 and a half years now and I can play scales comfortably up to about 200bpm. I use a 3 finger technique, and that helps immensely.
Playing something less sterile than scales and arpeggios helps too. Try getting a drum machine and choosing a slow beat to jam a blues progression on. Then you have fun with soloing and playing the bassline, and after you feel good about it you can ramp up the tempo. That kind of thing helped me way more than just repeating dry exercises.

[mpdd]

just play slow, driving, grindy rock music
playing fast is cool and everything, but you need to be able to play slow to have dynamics anyway

[Matthew_84]

Thanks everyone for your input. I woke up this morning and realized the answer was pretty simple... I should try using three fingers. I started doing it and I think I did a pretty decent job on my first day. I'm just playing at 40BPM, and still get mixed up sometimes, but I like how it feels and I actually think it sounds better. My middle sounds really twangy while my index is more thuddy, but adding the ring in there hides it. I've been focussing a lot today on playing cleanly and evenly and like I said, I think I'm off to a good start.

I also noticed that my strokes were huge and that they could be much smaller, so I posted in another thread and Fergie Fulton showed me a video about playing with the second knuckles as opposed to my big ones (similar to Billy Sheehan's technique). So, since I was starting something new, I decided to incorporate this as well. I'm basically starting at the beginning again, but I can already tell that once it becomes a little more natural to me, that I will play a lot quicker, cleaner and even more accurately. And the tension in my hand has been drastically lowered, but I'll see what it's like when I get to the "difficult parts".

And I do realize there's a lot more to learn that speed. I would say that I know a pretty decent amount of theory, though my ear does need work, and I can read music, but not as quickly as the song is played. So I will work on these, but for now I'm going to concentrate on getting this new technique up to par.

Thanks again!

Matt

[jmattbassplaya]

Honestly, if you're going to start over then don't bother with three finger because it has zero advantage over two finger technique.

Do this instead if speed is that important to you:
‪Four Finger Picking For Bass - Lesson‬‏ - YouTube

[Matthew_84]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Honestly, if you're going to start over then don't bother with three finger because it has zero advantage over two finger technique.

Do this instead if speed is that important to you:
‪Four Finger Picking For Bass - Lesson‬‏ - YouTube

Really? Wouldn't playing with three fingers be a bit quicker and/or easier than using two?

I've been practicing playing with my ring, middle and then index, and then back to ring, middle, index, ring, middle, index, etc. I know some people play ring, middle, index, middle, ring, middle, index, etc. which doesn't make sense to me and would be the same speed as the two finger technique for sure.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by Matthew_84

Really? Wouldn't playing with three fingers be a bit quicker and/or easier than using two?

On a good day, alternating Index and Middle, double stroking each finger, I can mimic whatever the drummer is doing, at least for a bit.

By the way shear speed is not the only thing in music. Hearing fast and thinking on your feet are far better skills to work on. Really.

[fcleff]

"The most important thing that you can do with this instrument is to not play solos, not play fast, but to get a good sound." - Ray Brown

I give a copy of this quote to all of my students.

f

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by fcleff

"The most important thing that you can do with this instrument is to not play solos, not play fast, but to get a good sound." - Ray Brown

I give a copy of this quote to all of my students.

f

This is why Jim Hall and David Gilmour are my two favorite guitarists! Oh and why Ray Brown is a favorite bassist.

On a side note and related to this post, one of the beauties of music is the way overtones react, slower playing allows for more interplay with the sound of the individual instruments reacting in the overtones/combination tones, regardless of 'tempo'.

[Ric5]

To play really fast and clean I use a pick.