Beginner Technique question

[homercaholic]

Hey all, this is my first post and im pretty much a total newb at the bass....well anything musical for that matter. Im 21 years old and my biggest bass influence is Jason Newsted, so needless to say I like the hard rock music like Metallica, but also RHCP, Coldplay, Greenday and so on, Anyway, onto the question...

Ive been practicing using a good book I picked up and its been getting me along pretty well and recently ive been trying to play some easy songs by using tabs, however im having a really hard time playing in time with the song. I put the song on my ipod and pop in my headphones and try to play along but I just cant play in time and start making stupid mistakes which totally throws me off. How do you all learn to play along with songs like this? For example im trying to learn For Whom the Bell Tolls which is relitively easy I think, however after the into where the tab is

G------------------------------------
D------------------------------------
A-----------------------------------2
E--0-3-2-1--0-3-2-1--0-3-2-1--0-2-3-- x8

I just cant play in line with the song, i'll go too fast, lose my place and just say the hell with it....any advice on some technique or something to practice to keep me in line?

[Matthew Bryson]

Originally Posted by homercaholic

....any advice on some technique or something to practice to keep me in line?

1) Listen to the drums.

2) tap your foot.

3) count

4) practice with a metronome

[MakiSupaStar]

Wake your foot up. Tap your foot to the song (not your bass playing). Another thing... Understand that timing, IMHO, is more important than playing the right note. Timing is everything. Make this your priority over hitting the right note. Then when you've played it a few times, you notice that when you're not thinking so hard about what note your playing, you're actually playing the right note. The only thing you need to focus on is timing. Did I mention that timing is important?

Get a metronome. Get that book you mentioned out and practice the figures or runs that it gives you with a metronome. Count. Count. Count. Count. Count. Count. A good way to break it up is by counting to 4.
So each bar has 4 counts.

1 2 3 4

Count it out aloud. It helps. These are called quarter notes.

Then split it up with "ands"

1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and | These are called eighth notes.

Then you can split it up again

1 e and uh 2 e and uh 3 e and uh 4 e and uh | These are called sixteenth notes.

Then once you get this down and steady so that it's running through your head in time with your metronome learn how to not hit and hit only certain parts of this. This will allow you to synchopate between beats. I would practice this stuff first, and then learn some songs. But it's important that when you learn songs that you count them out first. Get the count steady in your head maybe just playing whole notes in the key at the right time of the changes. Then add the quarters, eighths, sixteenths, etc.

I won't even go into counting with fives.

Have fun with it.

[Matthew Bryson]

BTW - I think that part of the song goes like this

Originally Posted by homercaholic

G------------------------------------------
D------------------------------------------
A-----------------------------------------0
E--0-3-2-1--0-3-2-1--0-3-2-1--0-2-3--


G------------------------------------------
D------------------------------------------
A-----------------------------------------2
E--0-3-2-1--0-3-2-1--0-3-2-1--0-2-3-- x4

(although I prefer to play the A by sliding up to the 5th fret on the E string rather than playing an open A)

[Fatandugly]

Best cure for bad timing is probably:

Playing the part over and over again.
Then play it over and over again. Again.

Try not to bang your head while playing, it wont help.

Good luck.

[EricF]

Play it as slow as you need to play it right every time. Play with a metronome to make sure you're staying in time. Speed will come with practice, practice, practice.

[homercaholic]

I can apply the counting to the book pretty easily because its in standard music notation but im confused as hell as to how to apply it to tabs or how to play it along with songs on my ipod. Like while listening to a song how do I know when to start counting, if the song is in quarter notes, eighths, sixteenths?

[Matthew Bryson]

Originally Posted by homercaholic

Like while listening to a song how do I know when to start counting, if the song is in quarter notes, eighths, sixteenths?

I'm sure that I'm showing what I hack I really am by saying this, but, IMO - it doesn't really matter that much. Example - My band plays a song and we had to spend a little while working out the solo section as the drummer was having a bit of trouble with it. The way I see it (and I really think I'm right, BTW) the solo section is 16 bars long and I'm playing eight notes counting 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and for 16 bars. The only way that the drummer could get his head around it was to count it 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 and of course he sees this section as being 32 bars long.

[EricF]

Tab's big limitation is that it doesn't communicate note time, only what note to play. You'll have to listen to the music to get the timing.

If you're counting, start at the beginning of the song or the first beat of a new section (verse, chorus, etc.). With a little practice, you'll be able to do it just by feel.

[homercaholic]

Hey all again, ive been taking it slow and have been concentrating on keeping a steady pace, however when I put it to the actual song I find I start to speed up again to keep pace with the song, I dont mean to, its just like the song carries me almost. Im still having a really hard time putting a count to tabs. It seems that the notes never match up with my count no matter how I try to modify it to try and match the song. The songs arent new to me, ive been a Metallica fan my whole life so I really know the song well, its just that I cant put a damn count on the thing. It seems like its just another thing I have to worry about getting right haha I know its probably just an inexperience thing, but any help is fantastic, this site has been invaluable.

And I have signed up for lessons, but they wont start until next week, and I hate waiting, i just want to play.

[VanillaO]

I don't recall the tab for that song looking remotely like that.. doesn't it go up to a 19 on the G? Or am I thinking of a different song?

[Depth_Charge]

The part tabbed is after the intro you're referring to as starting on the 19 of G.

When I was learning that part what threw me was that the middle and last part of the run going up sounds faster (it isn't) so I would speed that part up, then have to fix it back up on the normal groove.

As people have mentioned, practice and counting will help a lot.

Cheers,

[thelibster]

Hi there.

There are some really good suggestions above, stuff like practising with a metronome and also listening to the snare - which is something all bass players have to learn to do.

Another thing you can try is just singing your part along to the music - ie , not actually playing your bass, but listening to the music and imagining you are playing along. You should do this quite a bit and only try playing along when you KNOW how the bass line fits with the music. Listen to how the bass fits with everything else.

Your problem doesn't sound like a technique one - it's a listening and feeling one. Also, regarding technique, I don't know the song in question, but when you are first starting you often dont have enough strength in your fingers to keep up playing for a whole song - the bass is a very large instrument and it takes a while to develop finger strength. You just have to perservere - it gets easier. That's why it's best to start with songs where the bassline isn't fast or 'busy', with lots of notes in it.

By the way, I've got lots of lessons on this sort of thing at my site.

[tZer]

If you can't say it, you can't play it.

Learn how to "say" the part you are trying to play. Develop "vocabulary" of bass-centric scat and start learning your parts with your brain. Listen to it then try to scat it.

For example, RHCP's "Higher Ground" goes:
Boom ba blikita Blickita Blickita | Boom ba blikita Blickita Blickita....

or "Backwoods":
Boom boo bah bah bah babooboo boa bah | Boom boo bah bah bah babooboo boa bah...

Ok... looks ridiculous here, but if you can learn to say these parts it goes a long way towards being able to play them. Sometimes your brains believes you know a part - then you try to play it and you discover you really don't have it in your head yet. Say it, and you start to see where the break-down occurs.

[VanillaO]

Higher Ground definitely goes Boom BOOM ba BA blickita blickita :P

[homercaholic]

Thanks guys, I will work some more at it. And Libster Im looking at your site now and it looks great, seems like it will help me out a lot.

[MakiSupaStar]

Originally Posted by homercaholic

Hey all again, ive been taking it slow and have been concentrating on keeping a steady pace, however when I put it to the actual song I find I start to speed up again to keep pace with the song, I dont mean to, its just like the song carries me almost. Im still having a really hard time putting a count to tabs. It seems that the notes never match up with my count no matter how I try to modify it to try and match the song. The songs arent new to me, ive been a Metallica fan my whole life so I really know the song well, its just that I cant put a damn count on the thing. It seems like its just another thing I have to worry about getting right haha I know its probably just an inexperience thing, but any help is fantastic, this site has been invaluable.

And I have signed up for lessons, but they wont start until next week, and I hate waiting, i just want to play.

My only suggestion would be to get the parts down pat so that you aren't looking at the tablature at all. If you need to, simplify it and just hit the changes in the right time. Once you get that engrained in your head and jiving with your count, it will become instinct, and you can add all the inbetween stuff. Sometimes, and I say this with caution because it could f' with your head, but sometimes the tablature is wrong and it doesn't work because it's not what they're playing. Or the tablature might have the right note, but on an awkward part of the bass rather than on a part that is more "finger convenient". But usually they're right.

The point is to get it into your memory so you're not thinking about what your playing, but rather "when" you're playing.

Another thing, I've found ipods too hard to play along with. I prefer to put it into the stereo and play at low volumes until I've got it. That way you can seperate your head from the track better and really hear when your doing it wrong.

tZer's suggestions about making up vocal phrasing is a good suggestion too. I just found counting works better when you're dealing with drummers and later when you start noodling with other types of music like reggae. Still this is just a personal preference. You'll develop your own preferences and then at some point be giving us all tips on something you discovered along the way.

[iamlowsound]

Originally Posted by Matthew Bryson

I'm sure that I'm showing what I hack I really am by saying this, but, IMO - it doesn't really matter that much. Example - My band plays a song and we had to spend a little while working out the solo section as the drummer was having a bit of trouble with it. The way I see it (and I really think I'm right, BTW) the solo section is 16 bars long and I'm playing eight notes counting 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and for 16 bars. The only way that the drummer could get his head around it was to count it 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 and of course he sees this section as being 32 bars long.

I always count I count 1/4 notes 1234, 1/8ths 12341234, 1/16ths 1234123412341234. Just the way that I learned to count, counting the other way I couldn't keep up counting with my playing and I would get confused. Now Most of the time I don't count unless I am playing straight runs of 1/8ths or something like that.

lowsound

[PrimusNut]

I think PowerTabs will help a lot here. www.power-tab.net download the Power Tab Editor.

After you do this, you can go to www.ultimate-guitar.com and seacrh the song you are looking for tabs for. Download the Power Tabs version of the tabs, make sure it has bass.

Open the program. Go to file, open, and choose the song from where you saved it (they are .ptb format, kind of like MIDI). Go to View, and click View Bass Score. Click play, and the program will the play the tabs out for you.

I find that learning the right timing on a song is much easier with PowerTabs. I hope this helps.

[rainbownorth]

The only problem with power tab and guitar pro is that often they add in extra notes, in order to make the midi file sound less like a midi file. But other than that it can be handy.