being groovy

meta · #1 09-10-2009, 10:54 AM

the band I'm in has asked me if I can be more groovy. I'm fairly new to the bass, so this isn't a complete surprise to me. I've played more guitar than anything, so figure I am just playing too much - ie. I'm playing interesting lines on the bass, but am over-playing. I went back to playing with a pick after starting the bass with fingers, and I think I might just be over-doing the picking... I am hit the notes in time, and sometimes pull the beat a little bit... but I think to really be groovy I have to let the spaces between notes (ie. silence) be as important as the lines I'm playing.

does that sound right?

smithal3 · #2 09-10-2009, 11:01 AM

An intersting challege for me once, was to play a song using only the root notes and the flat seventh (two frets lower than the root). After playing that style for a few songs I realized that I stopped overplaying and really started focusing on different grooves and locking in with the drummer. You may want to try that.

Lay down the root note and occasionally bounce down to the b7. It will REALLY get you to start thinking about groove and rhythm over melody.

The purpose of the bass is two-fold:
1. Percussive/define the rhythm
2. Harmonic/provide harmonic accompaniment to the rest of the band by playing the lower notes.

Some people play too much of the first purpose and not enough of the second, or vice versa. From what you just said I get the idea that you probably focus on the second and let the first purpose slide. Focusing on just the first purpose for a while may make your overall playing a bit more balanced.

two fingers · #3 09-10-2009, 11:05 AM

I thinnk you are haeded in the right direction. Plus, if you are playing funk or soul music, let the drummer pull YOU rather than pulling the band. Play in the "back of the groove". You're not dragging the tempo, but just "relaxing" the feel of the groove.

Din Of Win · #4 09-10-2009, 11:13 AM

My two room mates are both very good guitarists. They have a band together and one of them plays bass, as they couldn't find a bass player. He plays it exactly like a guitar with lower notes. On its own it sounds sweet and is very technical. However, in the context of a band it sounds... for lack of better term... awful. It just detracts from the guitar leads and brings the whole thing down.

Now, one day their drummer didn't show up, and the bassist roomate jumped on drums and they asked me to play bass. Now, i'm no where near as technically proficient on bass as he is on guitar. However, i 'think like a bassist' as i have been a pure bass player since i started (aside from learning a few "panty dropper" songs on acoustic guitar). I played much more off of the drumms and more in the percussive sence than the melodic sence, adding in interesting fills when i felt it appropriate.

Anyways, long story short, they loved it. You basically need to ween yourself off of the guitar mentality. guitar =/= bass. So far, fretboard wankery only serves to impress 15 year olds in guitar center. Locking in with the drummer is your biggest task (at least in my experience). A lot of transitioning guitarists to bassists think this automatically equates to boring. But THATS what fills are for. Personally i LOVE a good grove with a sweet fill out of nowhere.

Short SHORT:

fretboard wankery impresses 15 year old basement goblins or old prog dudes with skullets*. a good groove gets the hot girls and boys shakin they butts on the dance floor. YOU decide where your perogatives lie.

*no offence to the skill of these people. again, it just serves a time and place, and it seems like the OP's band is neither the time OR place for this.

Lichtaffen · #5 09-10-2009, 12:18 PM

I once asked my older cousin, who is a really great R&B and blues bass player, for advice on playing bass and he said only one thing "listen to the bass drum". This can be taken many different ways, but I think what helped me was to pretend I WAS the bass drum, only with notes instead of just a thump. This reinforces what the other two posts above are saying. You should get together with just the drummer and work with him. Create a verbal and musical dialog with him and analyze music that your band feels is 'groovy'. Maybe try an exercise where you only play on his bass drum hits. Then listen to Donald 'Duck' Dunn with Booker T and the MGs. His lines are very simple appearing at first, but after careful analysis, you will find that the word is not 'simple', but 'economical'. He never plays unnecessary notes. He plays in what is called the pocket. Research this concept. Oh, and stop playing up and down the neck, stay in one position, all the notes are there. Then you won't waste time and energy moving your arm.

Skullets... bahahahaha!

strappa · #6 09-10-2009, 12:23 PM

just follow Bootsy's advice:

It's not the notes you play, It's the ones you don't

Everything is on the one!

DeluxeRed · #7 09-10-2009, 12:30 PM

LISTEN to as much music as you can, and LISTEN to the bass playing--you may hear it in a different light, now. Note how it accompanies some drum parts (usually kick) but stays out of the way of others (usually the snare). Note how it changes if there is a full-on vocal part or if it's under a, say, guitar solo. Notice how sometimes it's doing its own thing, and other times it is working with the other melodic instruments.

I suggest starting with older Motown and a lot of the other pop music from the '60 and '70's, when first chapters in the book of bass were being written. Sure, a lot has been played since then, but there's a lot to learn from JJ, DD, KK...

Lichtaffen · #8 09-10-2009, 12:33 PM

KK = Kris Kristofferson?

dmusic148 · #9 09-10-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meta

... but I think to really be groovy I have to let the spaces between notes (ie. silence) be as important as the lines I'm playing.

does that sound right?

Yep, it does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ISLe...eature=related

dmusic148 · #10 09-10-2009, 12:49 PM

Or, mega-groovy with a pick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFzNX...eature=related

DeluxeRed · #11 09-10-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

KK = Kris Kristofferson?

My idea of a joke. I meant Carol Kaye, famous early studio rat with lotsa bass credits.

Mr. Mig · #12 09-10-2009, 01:22 PM

Get into the rythm. Feel the music, don't think it.

ForestThump · #13 09-10-2009, 01:36 PM

Not exactly virtuoso but it works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5zFsy9VIdM

John Wentzien · #14 09-10-2009, 01:57 PM

"All cymbals should be made of rubber"

Joe Sanford (the king of funkiness)

meta · #15 09-10-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smithal3

An intersting challege for me once, was to play a song using only the root notes and the flat seventh (two frets lower than the root). After playing that style for a few songs I realized that I stopped overplaying and really started focusing on different grooves and locking in with the drummer. You may want to try that.

Lay down the root note and occasionally bounce down to the b7. It will REALLY get you to start thinking about groove and rhythm over melody.

The purpose of the bass is two-fold:
1. Percussive/define the rhythm
2. Harmonic/provide harmonic accompaniment to the rest of the band by playing the lower notes.

Some people play too much of the first purpose and not enough of the second, or vice versa. From what you just said I get the idea that you probably focus on the second and let the first purpose slide. Focusing on just the first purpose for a while may make your overall playing a bit more balanced.

I'll try this root and b7th method and see how it goes. it appears that that would make it work. thanks!

meta · #16 09-10-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Din Of Win

My two room mates are both very good guitarists. They have a band together and one of them plays bass, as they couldn't find a bass player. He plays it exactly like a guitar with lower notes. On its own it sounds sweet and is very technical. However, in the context of a band it sounds... for lack of better term... awful. It just detracts from the guitar leads and brings the whole thing down.

Now, one day their drummer didn't show up, and the bassist roomate jumped on drums and they asked me to play bass. Now, i'm no where near as technically proficient on bass as he is on guitar. However, i 'think like a bassist' as i have been a pure bass player since i started (aside from learning a few "panty dropper" songs on acoustic guitar). I played much more off of the drumms and more in the percussive sence than the melodic sence, adding in interesting fills when i felt it appropriate.

Anyways, long story short, they loved it. You basically need to ween yourself off of the guitar mentality. guitar =/= bass. So far, fretboard wankery only serves to impress 15 year olds in guitar center. Locking in with the drummer is your biggest task (at least in my experience). A lot of transitioning guitarists to bassists think this automatically equates to boring. But THATS what fills are for. Personally i LOVE a good grove with a sweet fill out of nowhere.

Short SHORT:

fretboard wankery impresses 15 year old basement goblins or old prog dudes with skullets*. a good groove gets the hot girls and boys shakin they butts on the dance floor. YOU decide where your perogatives lie.

*no offence to the skill of these people. again, it just serves a time and place, and it seems like the OP's band is neither the time OR place for this.

lol. that's right.

fender_funk_man · #17 09-10-2009, 08:32 PM

play in the pocket....

Kenny Allyn · #18 09-10-2009, 09:19 PM

I too use the "drop" or going to the flat 7th to relieve pressure from the main beat ...

Also sometimes a dramatic way behind the beat foray only to slingshot back to a hard ONE. It's all very feel oriented and hard to put into words, and I'm fortunate to work with one of this towns legendary blues/R&B drummers he and I anticipate each others moves totally by telepathy, we have worked together nearly three years now.

I'll see if I can describe it in a non-musical way ... have you ever seen an old pickup truck going down an old rutted bumpy gravel road, you see the bed and fenders flex and the wheels go up and down as it goes over the ruts in the road, but it's all moving in the same direction. That's groove!

... Don't over play it feel it!

Lichtaffen · #19 09-11-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Allyn

I'll see if I can describe it in a non-musical way ... have you ever seen an old pickup truck going down an old rutted bumpy gravel road, you see the bed and fenders flex and the wheels go up and down as it goes over the ruts in the road, but it's all moving in the same direction. That's groove!

Sanford and Son comes to mind. Great theme song by Quincy Jones.

I'm trying to visualize what you mean. I think you may be right. It's all about landing back on the one. Correct?

Kenny Allyn · #20 09-11-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

I'm trying to visualize what you mean. I think you may be right. It's all about landing back on the one. Correct?

Yeah the ONE keeps the momentum going ... the laybacks keep it funky and make for a nice groove. A technique I use often is to play the basic straight pattern once every third run through on a one chord vamp (to center the tune), say a song like the KoKo Taylor classic "Wang Dang Doodle" then twice play an off kilter behind the beat variation but always catching the ONE ... takes a really good drummer to make it work. Also a singer that is used to hearing the bassline come up behind the vocal line.

The drummer can do groove variations too, my drummer W.C. will sometimes pick a section on a medium shuffle and play the snare double time while keeping the kick straight, then it's my turm to play it dead straight pattern wise.

If you want to hear some of these groove ideas taken to the limit take a listen to the Allman Brothers "Live at the Fillmore"

... Some amazing stuff on that recording!