Blues patterns inside and outside the box

[Jayhawk]

Over the last several months I've been really developing a deeper love for the blues. There's something about the seemingly simple grooves that I just love to play. For many of the songs I've been learning I've stuck to the standard box pattern and worked my way though the 1-4-5 patterns with little or no shifting.

Recently though, I was working on learning Albert King's "Personal Manager" and began to play with shifting up the neck to play the lines rather than sticking to the box.

So it made we wonder about playing inside and outside the box on blues tunes. When is it best to stick to the box and when does moving outside the box make more sense?

[TheRockinRoadie]

I suppose it depends on what your playing style is, and what kind of blues your playing.

If your playing something along the more traditional lines, then the normal box pattern will probably be more suited.

If you wanted to play a more modern, upbeat blues (or blues/rock), with lots going on, then this would be a good time to think 'outside the box'

At least, thats what i do
Blues is about the pashion more than anything, so just do what you feel

[Kenny Allyn]

I shift all the time depending on how I want it to voice. As of late I've been playing higher on the neck depending on the key and dropping low for some drama. Or I'll play low and shift to accent high. I also use a lot of "passing" notes that are ouside the normal pattern.

... So much of what we do is not straight 1-4-5 though.

[Billnc]

If I'm dealing with something that I can walk on, I walk using standard jazz leading etc, or use mixolydian a lot. On minor blues there is usually room to stretch out a bit also. Slow blues a standard type walking line works well too. Since I work in a trio, I will sometimes play double stops like the guitar would, that power chord to 6th shuffle pattern. Other times ya got to play that one note boogie.

[Bluesy Soul]

Is your question is about where the box pattern (1-5-b7-8) is intonated; i.e., whether it's played on two strings--requiring a shift inposition of several frets up the neck (but in the same octave)--rather than in the more traditional manner in essentially one position across three strings within a three-fret range?

Or is it about playing the box pattern (presumably in the traditional manner) an octave higher on the neck?

[Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Bluesy Soul

Is your question is about where the box pattern (1-5-b7-8) is intonated; i.e., whether it's played on two strings--requiring a shift inposition of several frets up the neck (but in the same octave)--rather than in the more traditional manner in essentially one position across three strings within a three-fret range?

Yes - this is essentially what I was asking about. It's not a question of right or wrong I understand, but it's more a question of preference and why one is chosen over the other.

[Bluesy Soul]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk

Yes - this is essentially what I was asking about. It's not a question of right or wrong I understand, but it's more a question of preference and why one is chosen over the other.

Thanks for the clarification. In my blues band, I play a number of box-derived patterns on every gig and I intonate most of them in the traditional, single-position method across three strings and within three frets. I do that, like most players I believe, solely due to playing ease.

There are times I vary that, however, for a variety of reasons.

One reason is tone. If I want a deeper overall tone, instead of using the traditional three strings, I might--for a box pattern based on A1 (5th fret of fourth, or low E, string)--play the E(5) on the twelfth fret of the fourth string instead of the seventh fret of the third, or A, string, and play the Gb (b7) and the A on the tenth and twelfth frets of the third string instead of the fifth and seventh frets of the second (or D) string, respectively. The reason, of course, is to get the
deeper, fuller tone produced by the fourth and third strings nearer to the midpoint (octave) of the resonating strings.

Another reason I occasionally use an alternate intonation is to better enable me to play pick-up notes, grace notes, quick or syncopated passages by making the string changes or fingerings easier. There are limitless examples of this. For these same reasons, I occasionally also substitute an "8" (octave) for the "1" in the box pattern and play it "down" instead of "up".

I also use this alternate intonation when I want to slide (glissando) into the 5 from the 1.

I hope those are the types of comments you're after.

[lowphatbass]

Listen to you're favorite blues material as much as possible and do what you think sounds and feels the best. If one method is more more easily and reliably executed I would lean toward it in performance settings. You might also consider asking your bandleader/band mates what their preferences are, so much of what we do involves making them comfortable.

[Jayhawk]

Thanks to everyone for their input. Most of your comments confirmed what I already assumed, but it's always good to hear from others about their preferences and/or experiences.

[BluesyRocker]

I do a lot of blues jamming with a friend on guitar, there are so many variations its not funny. It all depends what sort of song your doing. If its a standard 1 IV V progression 12 bar jam. If i was playing it in key of A I could start it on the fifth fret E string and follow usual patter. or on the 12th of the A string, then play the D note on the 10th fret of the E, and use the E note on the 12th fret of the E string, for example, this gives you a couple of positions for the same key. as long as u keep in the groove and stick with the beat the possibilities are endless, When I jam with my friend to a drum machine Im constantly changing it up and sometimes our 12 bar jams go for one hour or more straight without stopping so the 12 bar is ingrained in my brain now. Beautiful thing about the patterns are pretty much the same just your root note/start point changes for different keys. You can even solo if you want too, this is what I have been working on lately . My advice stick with the grooves u know work, standard walking/bouncing bass lines and learn them in all keys or they keys u like playing in. (A and G are my favorites) then tyr shifting them to different positions on the fret board. Once u have these down u can start throwing in some extra little runs/notes etc. Stick with the blues/minor pentatonic scale for the most part but dont be afraid too go off the scale and try out a few different notes, sometimes you will play one by mistake and it will actually sound good and you will try to repeat it this is the best way too learn. I love playing the blues, its a simple music in principal but what u can do within that basic structure is pretty much infinite. Have fun with it, hope this helps.